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 Post subject: Re: Commander 2017 (Tribal)
AgePosted: 2017-Aug-09 6:28 am 
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Joined: 2012-Jan-06 10:25 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Seattle
Image

2UBR
Legendary Creature - Human Wizard
Eminence - Whenever another nontoken Wizard enters the battlefield under your control, if Inalla, Archmage Ritualist is in the command zone or on the battlefield, you may pay {1}. If you do, create a token that's a copy of that Wizard. The token gains haste. Exile it at the beginning of the next end step.

Tap five untapped Wizards you control: Target player loses 7 life.


I love C17 just sooooo much! I may never take these precons apart.

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Glissa, the Traitor -> Voltron
Mayael the Anima -> Flopping Fatties
Phenax, God of Deception -> Grave Rats
Starke of Rath -> Wrath of Starke: MRC

Proving Grounds: Drawmia-maro, Titania When Lands Attack, Tromokratis Read it Again, Kaalia's Klerics, Hordes of Tribes.


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 Post subject: Re: Commander 2017 (Tribal)
AgePosted: 2017-Aug-09 6:43 am 

Joined: 2013-Jun-23 10:18 am
Age: Elder Dragon
scatteredsun wrote:
Image

2UBR
Legendary Creature - Human Wizard
Eminence - Whenever another nontoken Wizard enters the battlefield under your control, if Inalla, Archmage Ritualist is in the command zone or on the battlefield, you may pay {1}. If you do, create a token that's a copy of that Wizard. The token gains haste. Exile it at the beginning of the next end step.

Tap five untapped Wizards you control: Target player loses 7 life.


I love C17 just sooooo much! I may never take these precons apart.


I have pretty much the opposite reaction to this. It's good, but I'm already imagining the Paradox Engine and Intruder Alarm shenanigans that are going to happen, and it's not going to be fun.

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Daretti, Scrap Savant (Red Artefacts).
Ephara, God of the Polis (Azorius Men O'War)
Rubinia Soulsinger (Bant Polymorphs).
Kess, Dissident Mage (Grixis Treasure).
Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper (Jund Apostles).
Mathas, Fiend Seeker (Mardu Judo).


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 Post subject: Re: Commander 2017 (Tribal)
AgePosted: 2017-Aug-09 6:56 am 

Joined: 2016-Sep-16 11:05 pm
Age: Wyvern
Surprised nobody is commenting on the janky things that can be done with Fractured Identity.

I'm curious if that card will convince players to reduce how often they play the truly powerful cards like Consecrated Sphinx or Avacyn.


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 Post subject: Re: Commander 2017 (Tribal)
AgePosted: 2017-Aug-09 7:03 am 

Joined: 2008-Jan-25 8:26 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Calgary
Segrus wrote:
You could still get decked, and you wouldn't be able to stop cards that say "you win." And I think it might be possible to get poisoned to death--I can't check for the appropriate cards this second.

Something like Flaring Pain will let poison damage through. Without that, plain infect damage will be prevented (protection from everything).

If someone can deck you + cause you to draw a card without targeting you (protection from everything) then yes, that would work too.

As will whatever 'win the game' cards are out there.

It's still a pretty darn trolltastic combo. I'd love to see it win an actual sanctioned Legacy or Vintage match. That'd be just :lol: :facepalm: :lol: :facepalm:

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 Post subject: Re: Commander 2017 (Tribal)
AgePosted: 2017-Aug-09 7:26 am 
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Joined: 2010-Jul-18 9:59 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Unfortunately my Mardu deck is currently (a bad version of) Kaalia (no Vampires) and my Grixis deck is Vampires (no Wizards, at least not intentionally) but there are some SWEET mono- and dual-colour cards coming out here!

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"- if this spell is played ten times in a given game then I suggest you warm up the tar and pluck some chickens" - tarnar

The internet's great at making noise, and poor at operating pants. There's gonna be half-dressed mobs screeching half-assed arguments for the rest of the 21st century - Kemev


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 Post subject: Re: Commander 2017 (Tribal)
AgePosted: 2017-Aug-09 8:46 am 
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Joined: 2010-Dec-10 12:16 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
tarnar wrote:
Segrus wrote:
You could still get decked, and you wouldn't be able to stop cards that say "you win." And I think it might be possible to get poisoned to death--I can't check for the appropriate cards this second.

Something like Flaring Pain will let poison damage through. Without that, plain infect damage will be prevented (protection from everything).



Don't forget old-school options like Swamp Mosquito and Crypt cobra that don't rely on damage to give poison counters. Though Prot Everything probably prevents getting a poison counter (but if they already have at least 1 counter, proliferate can add more. I use that to give Progenitus counters all the time)

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Hazezon Tamar - Manland theme
Seshiro the Anointed - Snake Tribal
Jedit Ojanen of Efrava - Cat and Warrior Dual Tribal
Doran, the Seige Tower - Wall Tribal
Progenitus - Hydra themed Proliferate Deck
Karona, the False God - Backstabbing Hug


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 Post subject: Re: Commander 2017 (Tribal)
AgePosted: 2017-Aug-09 9:53 am 

Joined: 2009-Apr-21 3:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Palm Springs Area, CA
Swmystery wrote:
scatteredsun wrote:
Image

2UBR
Legendary Creature - Human Wizard
Eminence - Whenever another nontoken Wizard enters the battlefield under your control, if Inalla, Archmage Ritualist is in the command zone or on the battlefield, you may pay {1}. If you do, create a token that's a copy of that Wizard. The token gains haste. Exile it at the beginning of the next end step.

Tap five untapped Wizards you control: Target player loses 7 life.


I love C17 just sooooo much! I may never take these precons apart.


I have pretty much the opposite reaction to this. It's good, but I'm already imagining the Paradox Engine and Intruder Alarm shenanigans that are going to happen, and it's not going to be fun.
I'm just thinking about all the legendary wizards I love that just wont get played with her.

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 Post subject: Re: Commander 2017 (Tribal)
AgePosted: 2017-Aug-09 9:54 am 

Joined: 2009-Apr-21 3:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Palm Springs Area, CA
crimson wrote:
Surprised nobody is commenting on the janky things that can be done with Fractured Identity.

I'm curious if that card will convince players to reduce how often they play the truly powerful cards like Consecrated Sphinx or Avacyn.

all of my esper decks are going to run Fractured Identity and Phage. hows that?

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 Post subject: Re: Commander 2017 (Tribal)
AgePosted: 2017-Aug-09 11:12 am 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
tarnar wrote:
Segrus wrote:
You could still get decked, and you wouldn't be able to stop cards that say "you win." And I think it might be possible to get poisoned to death--I can't check for the appropriate cards this second.

Something like Flaring Pain will let poison damage through. Without that, plain infect damage will be prevented (protection from everything).

If someone can deck you + cause you to draw a card without targeting you (protection from everything) then yes, that would work too.

As will whatever 'win the game' cards are out there.

It's still a pretty darn trolltastic combo. I'd love to see it win an actual sanctioned Legacy or Vintage match. That'd be just :lol: :facepalm: :lol: :facepalm:

There are currently a lot of wheel effects available right now, so forcing players to draw cards without targeting isn't difficult at all.

As for poison counters, if you're playing poison you'll likely get a counter or more on them before they can Teferi themselves away. Otherwise, Ichor Rats would work just fine. Proliferate is such a strong ability.

It is a trolltastic combination though, and I'd roll my eyes if someone brought it to the table.

Seriously though, all the cards they've previewed so far are awesome.

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 Post subject: Re: Commander 2017 (Tribal)
AgePosted: 2017-Aug-09 12:27 pm 

Joined: 2014-Jul-26 11:35 am
Age: Elder Dragon
I so very much want this card:
Image

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Playing Online:
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 Post subject: Re: Commander 2017 (Tribal)
AgePosted: 2017-Aug-09 1:40 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
tarnar wrote:
Activate Lethal Vapors 1000 times, resolve them all, play Teferi's Protection.

Your turn.

Actually...come to think of it, strategically speaking, doesn't this just end in a draw/time out every time? I mean, think about it: if your opponent goes to set this up, has all the triggers on the stack, and you know you've got no way to interact with them--what else are you going to do except refuse to allow any of them to resolve? Lethal Vapors allows anybody to activate it, so all you do is just keep activating it yourself. For every 1000 turns they skip, you skip that many too. If your opponent wants to win by this method, they'd have to put another 1000 turns on the stack...to which you do the same...etc.

So the only way out of it is to call it a draw and everyone refuses to allow any of them to resolve, or your opponent gives up and you all continue the game as normal with everybody mysteriously at 1000+ turns.

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 Post subject: Re: Commander 2017 (Tribal)
AgePosted: 2017-Aug-09 4:10 pm 

Joined: 2014-Jul-26 11:35 am
Age: Elder Dragon
You would have to activate the vapors on your turn then hold priority and use krosan grip to destroy it.

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 Post subject: Re: Commander 2017 (Tribal)
AgePosted: 2017-Aug-09 7:45 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Dec-10 12:16 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Quote:
ImageImageImage


You know what really bothers me about these? The casting cost. It should be WBR (a la Kaalia) not RWB. I thought the stupid order change was supposed to be a Khans-block-only tool to frustrate players' attempts at card organization for flavor because of the color the clans were centered around.

I know I'm slightly CDO (alphabetical order matters), but this really irks me.

This:
WU
WUB
WB
WBR
UB
UBR
UR
URG
BR
BRG
BG
BGW
RG
RGW
RW
RWU
GW
GWU
GU
GUB

Makes more sense as a scheme, since it follows a nice pattern for pairs, shards and wedges. Everything in color order as you go around the circle. Why mess with the order outset of a set that wanted the "flavor" change?

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Hazezon Tamar - Manland theme
Seshiro the Anointed - Snake Tribal
Jedit Ojanen of Efrava - Cat and Warrior Dual Tribal
Doran, the Seige Tower - Wall Tribal
Progenitus - Hydra themed Proliferate Deck
Karona, the False God - Backstabbing Hug


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 Post subject: Re: Commander 2017 (Tribal)
AgePosted: 2017-Aug-09 8:39 pm 
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Joined: 2016-Nov-27 2:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Treamayne wrote:
Quote:
ImageImageImage


You know what really bothers me about these? The casting cost. It should be WBR (a la Kaalia) not RWB. I thought the stupid order change was supposed to be a Khans-block-only tool to frustrate players' attempts at card organization for flavor because of the color the clans were centered around.

I know I'm slightly CDO (alphabetical order matters), but this really irks me.

This:
WU
WUB
WB
WBR
UB
UBR
UR
URG
BR
BRG
BG
BGW
RG
RGW
RW
RWU
GW
GWU
GU
GUB

Makes more sense as a scheme, since it follows a nice pattern for pairs, shards and wedges. Everything in color order as you go around the circle. Why mess with the order outset of a set that wanted the "flavor" change?


It wasn't a flavor change at all. They made that change because playtesting showed it manifestly changed and improved how people were looking at deck-building when making wedge decks, and fixed a problem they noticed early on in KTK drafting when they had the Commander 2011 mana symbol ordering. Khan Do Attitude, Part 2 explains the reasoning beneath the heading "Why are the mana symbols on the wedge cards in Khans of Tarkir different than previous wedge cards?", and what they saw in playtests before/after they changed the mana symbol order. (I'll quote that in a moment.)

Queen Marchesa and Leovold, Emissary of Trest (from Conspiracy 2) also use the Khans of Tarkir mana symbol ordering, so I think they've just taken the KTK ordering up as the canonical Wedge symbol ordering. Commander 2011 never managed to explore the deckbuilding issues connected to the mana symbol ordering, so I guess that was just a first go, and now they've decided which way the symbols should be ordered and stuck with it.

Here's that excerpt from Khan Do Attitude, Part 2, about the mana symbol change:

Quote:
Why are the mana symbols on the wedge cards in Khans of Tarkir different than previous wedge cards?

Image Image

One of the things development is very concerned with is making sure that the average player understands the basic strategy of the set he or she is playing with. While drafting Khans of Tarkir with Magic players in the building who weren't from R&D, Erik Lauer, the set's lead developer as well as R&D's head developer, realized they were missing a very important basic drafting strategy. In Khans of Tarkir, if you start by drafting two color, there is a big different between drafting an ally-colored pair and an enemy-colored pair.

Ally-color pairs only allow you a single wedge option, while enemy-color pairs leave you open to draft two different clans. For instance, if you start by drafting white-blue, you can only then go on to draft the Jeskai wedge, but if you start by drafting blue-red, you leave yourself open to both Jeskai and Temur. Many of the players were missing this, so Erik tried an experiment. By shifting the mana costs such that the enemy pairs were sitting next to each other in mana costs, it became a little easier to recognize that each wedge was made up of two enemy-color combinations.

Erik's playtesting showed that it helped enough that he talked about it with Del Laugel, Magic's lead editor, and she agreed to the change.

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Beloved precons: Atraxa, Praetors' Voice; Saskia the Unyielding; Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury.


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 Post subject: Re: Commander 2017 (Tribal)
AgePosted: 2017-Aug-09 9:03 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Dec-10 12:16 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
spacemonaut wrote:
It wasn't a flavor change at all. They made that change because playtesting showed it manifestly changed and improved how people were looking at deck-building when making wedge decks, and fixed a problem they noticed early on in KTK drafting when they had the Commander 2011 mana symbol ordering. Khan Do Attitude, Part 2 explains the reasoning beneath the heading "Why are the mana symbols on the wedge cards in Khans of Tarkir different than previous wedge cards?", and what they saw in playtests before/after they changed the mana symbol order. (I'll quote that in a moment.)

Queen Marchesa and Leovold, Emissary of Trest (from Conspiracy 2) also use the Khans of Tarkir mana symbol ordering, so I think they've just taken the KTK ordering up as the canonical Wedge symbol ordering. Commander 2011 never managed to explore the deckbuilding issues connected to the mana symbol ordering, so I guess that was just a first go, and now they've decided which way the symbols should be ordered and stuck with it.

Here's that excerpt from Khan Do Attitude, Part 2, about the mana symbol change:
Quote:
By shifting the mana costs such that the enemy pairs were sitting next to each other in mana costs, it became a little easier to recognize that each wedge was made up of two enemy-color combinations.



Ugghhhh... I'll have to find the relevant article later (WotC Search sucks) but this seems the opposite of what they always said, that a Wedge was an allied color pair and their shared enemy!
e.g. RWU

How about that left turn at Albuquerque...

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HK

Hazezon Tamar - Manland theme
Seshiro the Anointed - Snake Tribal
Jedit Ojanen of Efrava - Cat and Warrior Dual Tribal
Doran, the Seige Tower - Wall Tribal
Progenitus - Hydra themed Proliferate Deck
Karona, the False God - Backstabbing Hug


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