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 Post subject: Re: Hour of Devastation
AgePosted: 2017-Jun-17 4:00 am 

Joined: 2009-Apr-21 3:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Palm Springs Area, CA
its definitely a more powerful effect, but I wouldnt call it power creep given the cost.

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 Post subject: Re: Hour of Devastation
AgePosted: 2017-Jun-17 5:28 am 
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Joined: 2012-Sep-19 1:30 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Treamayne wrote:
Not saying it's unbalanced at all (like DDK said, possibly overcosted CMC for Nissa); but the first thing I thought of on reading this was Garruk Wildspeaker. Back when PWs were introduced, untapping two lands and was considered strong and only worth +1 and now you untap two lands and two creatures for +2...
But that's a 4 CMC planeswalker vs. a 7 CMC. That 7 CMC should definitely have a higher power level.

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 Post subject: Re: Hour of Devastation
AgePosted: 2017-Jun-17 6:11 am 
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Joined: 2010-Dec-10 12:16 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
niheloim wrote:
its definitely a more powerful effect, but I wouldnt call it power creep given the cost.

Willbender wrote:
But that's a 4 CMC planeswalker vs. a 7 CMC. That 7 CMC should definitely have a higher power level.


Hence, why I said it was not unbalanced. Generally speaking, the relative power of any given ability (+ or -) was a function of starting loyalty, casting cost and ultimate cost.

However, historically, the "umphh" (technical term) was fairly similar (+2 was weaker than a +1 because it got you to the ultimate faster, -1 was weaker than a -2 because it kept you closer to the ultimate) and the CMC balance was in the power of the ultimate and the starting loyalty value(when looking at Lorwyn to Scars-ish era walkers) as well as if the walker in question had a +1, +2, etc (but the type of effect available at +1, +2 were similar in power for their color(s)).

It's not true power creep; but I think it is a form of power creep. Just struck me was all, wanted to share.

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Doran, the Seige Tower - Wall Tribal
Progenitus - Hydra themed Proliferate Deck
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 Post subject: Re: Hour of Devastation
AgePosted: 2017-Jun-17 8:02 am 

Joined: 2009-Apr-21 3:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Palm Springs Area, CA
Treamayne wrote:
niheloim wrote:
its definitely a more powerful effect, but I wouldnt call it power creep given the cost.

Willbender wrote:
But that's a 4 CMC planeswalker vs. a 7 CMC. That 7 CMC should definitely have a higher power level.


Hence, why I said it was not unbalanced. Generally speaking, the relative power of any given ability (+ or -) was a function of starting loyalty, casting cost and ultimate cost.

However, historically, the "umphh" (technical term) was fairly similar (+2 was weaker than a +1 because it got you to the ultimate faster, -1 was weaker than a -2 because it kept you closer to the ultimate) and the CMC balance was in the power of the ultimate and the starting loyalty value(when looking at Lorwyn to Scars-ish era walkers) as well as if the walker in question had a +1, +2, etc (but the type of effect available at +1, +2 were similar in power for their color(s)).

It's not true power creep; but I think it is a form of power creep. Just struck me was all, wanted to share.

Its definitely a case of making walkers more impactful... gives them that oomph we want them to have.

The first few walkers were glorified enchantments. Now we're getting them with a lot of character and board presence.

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 Post subject: Re: Hour of Devastation
AgePosted: 2017-Jun-17 2:39 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Dec-10 12:16 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
niheloim wrote:
Its definitely a case of making walkers more impactful... gives them that oomph we want them to have.

The first few walkers were glorified enchantments. Now we're getting them with a lot of character and board presence.


True. It also makes them more of a threat (and therefore a better target for an attack, and therefore more "interactive").

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Hazezon Tamar - Manland theme
Seshiro the Anointed - Snake Tribal
Jedit Ojanen of Efrava - Cat and Warrior Dual Tribal
Doran, the Seige Tower - Wall Tribal
Progenitus - Hydra themed Proliferate Deck
Karona, the False God - Backstabbing Hug


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 Post subject: Re: Hour of Devastation
AgePosted: 2017-Jun-19 1:15 am 

Joined: 2010-Feb-17 1:06 pm
Age: Dragon
Location: Europe - Somewhere
ImageImageImageImageImageImageImage

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 Post subject: Re: Hour of Devastation
AgePosted: 2017-Jun-19 5:27 am 
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Joined: 2012-Feb-07 4:15 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
God damn it Amonkhet give us a Naya cat lord... or at least a GW one.

And that Dreamstalker looks like it may very well be the newest addition to my BruseIkra deck... although I actually fear that in that deck it may be too overpowered. Too many cards combine to make it effectively a 3 mana Bolas.


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 Post subject: Re: Hour of Devastation
AgePosted: 2017-Jun-19 7:04 am 
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Joined: 2012-Jan-06 10:25 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Seattle
Image

Whoa. :shock:


So...can a thing be a copy of multiple things simultaneously or does each activation overwrite the previous copy?

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Phenax, God of Deception -> Grave Rats
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 Post subject: Re: Hour of Devastation
AgePosted: 2017-Jun-19 7:32 am 
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Joined: 2010-Dec-10 12:16 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
scatteredsun wrote:
Image

Whoa. :shock:


So...can a thing be a copy of multiple things simultaneously or does each activation overwrite the previous copy?


It doesn't say "and keeps this ability" so it would copy only one thing until it becomes itself again. If you activate it in response to itself repeatedly, it should end up as only the last effect to resolve. Though that could make for some interesting chains assuming you have the mana to do many activations of abilities in between resolution of another copy of it's effect.

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Hazezon Tamar - Manland theme
Seshiro the Anointed - Snake Tribal
Jedit Ojanen of Efrava - Cat and Warrior Dual Tribal
Doran, the Seige Tower - Wall Tribal
Progenitus - Hydra themed Proliferate Deck
Karona, the False God - Backstabbing Hug


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 Post subject: Re: Hour of Devastation
AgePosted: 2017-Jun-19 7:50 am 
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Joined: 2008-Mar-24 12:14 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Oakland, CA
Treamayne wrote:
Though that could make for some interesting chains assuming you have the mana to do many activations of abilities in between resolution of another copy of it's effect.

Way back when I built my 3rd EDH deck, I used Mizzium Transreliquat to do exactly that, making lots of colorless mana with Basalt Monolith + Rings of Brighthearth, then stacking alternating activations of Mizzium onto first Magistrate's Scepter, then Basalt Monolith. In between each copy ability resolving, I would tap to add a counter or take a turn, or pay 3 to untap, depending on which artifact it was copying at the moment. If I were to build something like that again I would probably swap Scepter out for Lux Cannon, which is equally game-ending if that combo resolves undisrupted but doesn't slow the game down as much in normal play.

Another thing you can do is temporarily become Sun Droplet or Angelheart Vial when about to take a lot (but not a lethal amount) of damage, then switch to Druids' Repository or Pentad Prism to turn those charge counters into a resource better suited to making a comeback.


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 Post subject: Re: Hour of Devastation
AgePosted: 2017-Jun-19 8:38 am 
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Joined: 2010-Dec-10 12:16 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Yeah, I was considering things like Jeskai Ascendancy to get two untap effects for each spell, copy a creature with the effects on the stack, etc., et al.

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Hazezon Tamar - Manland theme
Seshiro the Anointed - Snake Tribal
Jedit Ojanen of Efrava - Cat and Warrior Dual Tribal
Doran, the Seige Tower - Wall Tribal
Progenitus - Hydra themed Proliferate Deck
Karona, the False God - Backstabbing Hug


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 Post subject: Re: Hour of Devastation
AgePosted: 2017-Jun-19 10:05 am 

Joined: 2009-Apr-21 3:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Palm Springs Area, CA
I really do want a foil set of those deserts mounted and framed for my classroom.

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 Post subject: Re: Hour of Devastation
AgePosted: 2017-Jun-19 4:50 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Jan-02 5:25 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Costa La Haya, capital del ducado Holanda
scatteredsun wrote:
Image

Whoa. :shock:


So...can a thing be a copy of multiple things simultaneously or does each activation overwrite the previous copy?


I hate it when I have to find room for new cards in my Glissa deck.

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 Post subject: Re: Hour of Devastation
AgePosted: 2017-Jun-19 11:53 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Jan-06 10:25 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Seattle
Neheb "Pushing the Limits of the Creature Type Text Space", The Eternal

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Glissa, the Traitor -> Voltron
Mayael the Anima -> Flopping Fatties
Phenax, God of Deception -> Grave Rats
Starke of Rath -> Wrath of Starke: MRC

Proving Grounds: Drawmia-maro, Titania When Lands Attack, Tromokratis Read it Again, Kaalia's Klerics, Hordes of Tribes.


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 Post subject: Re: Hour of Devastation
AgePosted: 2017-Jun-20 1:25 am 

Joined: 2008-Aug-08 6:34 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Rouen, France
Before this set, only one mono-R zombie card existed, Slavering Nulls along with 19 gold cards of various Grixis mixes.

Neheb brings us to 2 along with Wildfire Eternal, hopefully we'll be getting more.

They are currently the only two cards that interest me from HOD. :(

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