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 Post subject: Re: Wotc as caretakers of a format
AgePosted: 2018-Jul-23 12:19 pm 
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Uktabi_Kong wrote:
Then again, it isn't strictly a hermit druid combo deck, but still.

I think that's the key point this deckbuilder was getting at. It's not just Angel combo, so replacing two or more cards with a single card gives you one more tutor/card draw/removal/whatever you need to make things more consistent.

I've been out of the loop on putting combo pieces together, since most of what I build is aggro, synergy, and control. Furthermore, most of my best combo pieces have been reserved for my Cube, so they don't see the inside of a Commander deck. It could be that this particular decklist is no good, or that Muldrotha creates a vulnerability not currently apparent. This was just a decklist recommended by players on the cEDH subreddit, so I bookmarked it awhile back so I could study it.

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 Post subject: Re: Wotc as caretakers of a format
AgePosted: 2018-Jul-25 7:56 am 
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neolithic wrote:
Muldrotha replaces Angel of Glory's Rise and Auriok Salvagers,because she is able to do the same things. Angel revives all humans for a lab man win and salvagers goes infinite with Lion's Eye Diamond. That's both possible with Muldrotha.

Ummm what?

Can someone explain to me how Muldrotha can go infinite with LED? (instead of using Salvagers)


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 Post subject: Re: Wotc as caretakers of a format
AgePosted: 2018-Jul-25 8:41 am 
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Carthain wrote:
neolithic wrote:
Muldrotha replaces Angel of Glory's Rise and Auriok Salvagers,because she is able to do the same things. Angel revives all humans for a lab man win and salvagers goes infinite with Lion's Eye Diamond. That's both possible with Muldrotha.

Ummm what?

Can someone explain to me how Muldrotha can go infinite with LED? (instead of using Salvagers)

First you have to get Muldrotha out of the graveyard. The deck tech suggests Hermit Druid mills your library, getting Narcomoeba, Fatestitcher, and Dread Return into your graveyard (also Lion's Eye Diamond, Phantasmal Image, and Necromancy). Narcomoeba comes onto the battlefield, unearth Fatestitcher and use it to recoup a {U}, then Dread Return Muldrotha.

After that:
1. Play Lion's Eye Diamond from the grave.
2. Sac for {U}{U}{U} and cast Phantasmal Image from the grave.
3. Copy Muldrotha with P.Image, saccing the original due to legendary status.
4. Play LED from the grave using your new Muldrotha.
5. Sac for {B}{B}{B} and cast Necromancy from your graveyard to bring back Muldrotha.
6. Repeat, netting {U} each cycle (step 2 only uses two {U} of the three {U} you get). Now you have infinite mana.

So not quite just Muldrotha, but I think maybe the rest of the cards were things you might be playing in this deck anyway. The continuing disclaimer here that I absolutely did not build this deck and don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to cEDH.

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 Post subject: Re: Wotc as caretakers of a format
AgePosted: 2018-Jul-26 12:35 am 
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Segrus wrote:
So not quite just Muldrotha,

Yeah, and that's what the quote provided seemed to imply - that it was just Muldrotha.

Using other cards as well - sure I can understand that.


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 Post subject: Re: Wotc as caretakers of a format
AgePosted: 2018-Jul-26 1:00 am 
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Carthain wrote:
Segrus wrote:
So not quite just Muldrotha,

Yeah, and that's what the quote provided seemed to imply - that it was just Muldrotha.

Using other cards as well - sure I can understand that.

Doesn't everybody call stuff a one-/two-/three-card combo? I mean, people will call Tooth and Nail a "one-card combo," even though that totally doesn't make any real sense--it doesn't win you the game, but the two creatures it grabs might which means you need at least three cards. It has always bothered me, but it's the language a lot of Magic players use for some reason.

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 Post subject: Re: Wotc as caretakers of a format
AgePosted: 2018-Jul-26 1:32 am 
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Segrus wrote:
Doesn't everybody call stuff a one-/two-/three-card combo? I mean, people will call Tooth and Nail a "one-card combo," even though that totally doesn't make any real sense--it doesn't win you the game, but the two creatures it grabs might which means you need at least three cards. It has always bothered me, but it's the language a lot of Magic players use for some reason.

Hooray! Someone else who thinks like I do :)


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 Post subject: Re: Wotc as caretakers of a format
AgePosted: 2018-Jul-26 3:47 am 

Joined: 2017-Jun-13 4:56 am
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For context I do want to say that I see 1v1 Commander as a completely seperate format from Commander of EDH origins. 1v1 Commander is a competitive format that does not have the "deliberate casual and social philosophy" that defines Commander.

OldVig wrote:
I do not play 1v1 commander, however I am dismayed by the way wotc continually mess with the format, and glad that the RC don't behave like that. In case you missed it they are 're-imagining' 1v1 by banning the partner mechanic and unbanning 25 cards so that the format can find a new more powerful level.


Here's the thing with 1v1C, it was not a created format. It is an organically generated format, like Pauper. It exists because if you queue up on MTGO to play Commander without customizing match settings it drops you into a 1v1 game as default, and MTGO wouldn't give you 40 life in a 1v1 game. Has it even been a year since it used the Commander banlist?

This is not them reimagining a format they created and were dissatisfied with, this is WotC taking responsibility for a popular online format that has SERIOUS balance problems.

Segrus wrote:


Look at that list. NONE of those are on the Commander list. All of them were banned in 1v1C to disrupt a "solved" meta. But isn't an important part of playing Commander so you can get to use your busted old cards? Isn't the biggest advantage to playing Commander online the availability of expensive, rare, and reserved cards for junk rare prices?

1v1C is a vintage legal format. The 1-copy rule basically makes every card restricted, and with 100 cards the consistency of broken starts is decreased even further. The only increase in combo-able consistency is the ONE card you always have, the commander. Partner commanders gave TWO cards of bonus consistency, and since some of the partner commanders (Vial Smasher the Fierce) were powerful enough to be solo commanders there was a notable imbalance. Voiding the partner mechanic evens the power level of partners, and allows the format fewer bans.


I'm not saying that 1v1C is in a great place right now, it's been a while since I played, but I think that this is a good thing. WotC is stepping up to be caretakers of a format that previously had none.

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 Post subject: Re: Wotc as caretakers of a format
AgePosted: 2018-Jul-26 4:07 am 
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Evilkritter wrote:
Look at that list. NONE of those are on the Commander list.

If I understand what you're saying here, then look again. They unbanned Yawgmoth's Bargain, which is banned in Commander.

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 Post subject: The care one takes
AgePosted: 2018-Jul-27 3:56 am 

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Segrus wrote:
Evilkritter wrote:
Look at that list. NONE of those are on the Commander list.

If I understand what you're saying here, then look again. They unbanned Yawgmoth's Bargain, which is banned in Commander.


0.0 Uh, I have a deck to adjust.

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 Post subject: Re: Wotc as caretakers of a format
AgePosted: 2018-Jul-27 7:57 am 

Joined: 2014-Sep-13 7:28 am
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Uktabi_Kong wrote:
But angel is an almost literal instant win with Disciple of Bolas, Cloudblazer, Fathom Mage, or Rogue Refiner, all of which are more than playable in this type of deck. Then again, it isn't strictly a hermit druid combo deck, but still.

Muldrotha does too because with infinite mana you can have your deck in your hand which is basically 'win' as your deck includes includes Lab Man and other cards.
With infinite mana, you can create interesting board states if your win cons gets extracted. For example, my only cards that 'win' are Laboratory Maniac and Zulaport Cutthroat, but even if they get extracted or removed permanently somehow, i can still draw my whole deck and many things. Timetwister loops to make infinite birds with Swan Song and life with Nature's Claim or empty everyone's board with Cyclonic Rift/bounce spell, Twister, and Notion Thief, and mill everyone out by casting Windfall enough times.

I used to play 5c angry hermit a couple years ago. Right now i am playing a Flashhulk/Razaketh deck with no Angel and no Hermit and Lab Man is still a main win condition. I am still playing Salvagers and haven't used Moldy yet. There's just so many ways to play it i guess it would be shortsighted to say Angel is entirely useless but honestly even a couple years ago when i play 5c angry hermit, i didn't use Angel then either.

The problem with disciple/blazer/mage/refiner is that they are bad cards you don't want in your hand. Refiner is kind of okay because it gets punchy with Tymna, but eh. Also, Hapless Researcher is great with Lab Man if using Angel. With Muldrotha's lines though, you are using even less cards that have a single purpose, and it just uses cards that already should be in the deck.
Muldrotha can be seen as more risky since you empty your library AND hand, but you are casting stuff like Silence and Grand Abolisher and in general reading the table/board state and estimating hands so it's not really much more risky.


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 Post subject: Re: Wotc as caretakers of a format
AgePosted: 2018-Jul-28 8:21 am 

Joined: 2009-Apr-21 3:38 pm
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Carthain wrote:
Segrus wrote:
Doesn't everybody call stuff a one-/two-/three-card combo? I mean, people will call Tooth and Nail a "one-card combo," even though that totally doesn't make any real sense--it doesn't win you the game, but the two creatures it grabs might which means you need at least three cards. It has always bothered me, but it's the language a lot of Magic players use for some reason.

Hooray! Someone else who thinks like I do :)

maybe they're thinking about the number of cards required to cast?

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