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 Post subject: Re: Presented without comment
AgePosted: 2018-Oct-16 7:46 am 
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Joined: 2016-Nov-27 2:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Uktabi_Kong wrote:
Had a Stomping Grounds (among other stuff) in the GY. Cracked a fetchland. As he was shuffling the deck, he grabbed said Grounds and put it on the top of the library. Then he pulled it out of the library as the target for the fetchland. Presumably what happened was he had accidentally dredged all the Stomping Grounds in the deck despite needing one for whatever play he wanted to make.

Tl;dr: Snuck a card from his GY to his library as he was shuffling it.

Also, not that it's particularly relevant, but what card did the other player play on his turn? Either it's something I don't recognize or there was a glare and I couldn't read it.

Wow, I see it. Thank you. So the spread-out area on the player's right was his graveyard. He puts that wooded foothills he cracked over there, then since he needed to search for his Stomping Grounds...

Image


... he picks it up from his graveyard (right hand) at the same instant as picking up his library (left hand). Then like you say, he just keeps it held there and "searches" his library for the card he picked up.

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 Post subject: Re: Presented without comment
AgePosted: 2018-Oct-16 12:23 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Jul-18 9:59 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Update from the store where it happened:

Quote:
On Saturday Oct 13th, during our Modern event, Dan Lanthier was caught manipulating his deck during a match. After the event, the incident was reviewed by the owner and a local Level 2 judge and he was DQ'ed from the event. A full report of the incident has been put forward by us to the DCI and WOTC of the incident. We also contacted all players involved in matches against Dan Lanthier and provided them with the correct prize based on where they would have finished.

The behavior and actions exhibited are unacceptable to anyone at the Wizard's Tower and will not be tolerated. Wizard's Tower always strives and works towards creating a safe and fun environment for all staff and customers in our store. This incident was not representative of this and we have given a lifetime ban to Dan Lanthier from playing any events at our store.

We will always work with our community and players to provide the safest and best environment for players to play the games they love.

We appreciate all of your support in helping to build our gaming community.

Dave Tellier (Owner) and Joey Hoffer (General Manager)
Wizard's Tower

Will be interesting to see what the DCI does, if anything

Edited to add: now that someone has actually told me his name, I feel obligated to point out that he is an EX-Canadian Champion, not the CURRENT Canadian Champion. My apologies to whoever currently holds that position.

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 Post subject: Re: Presented without comment
AgePosted: 2018-Oct-16 1:13 pm 
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Joined: 2017-Mar-11 6:43 am
Age: Dragon
What I hate about this particular cheat, and similar cheats like the Explore cheats (people have tried them on me at an FNM level)- is that the player purposefully has a disheveled graveyard to obfuscate what he was doing. Without this footage, even if caught; this individual is trying to create a degree of deniability. In similar situations where people play Explore to try and peel 2 cards; I've literally had to have a TO count the total number of cards in play, the number of cards played which draw cards, and weight them against the number of turns taken. The last time that happened, the other player had skimmed an extra card 3 TIMES, before I compared our hands, graveyards, and boardstate. Because it was just an FNM, the TO could only give him a gameloss and a warning that if he did it again; he's get dropped completely.

Moral of the story- this crap is typical; and the players who do it aren't as clever as they imagine themselves. The only reason I caught it, is because I was taught to card count while playing Black Jack when I was a young child- so in MtG, I'm always counting the number of land, handsizes, graveyard etc.

EDIT: Watching that stream, looking for scummy things that he also did.
I. He preemptively cuts his deck into 4 piles
II. In game 2 against UW, the other player said before mulligans that he wanted to be on the draw. After they both mulliganed, he proceeded to tell the other play that it was his turn.
III. His boardstate is constantly unkempt. Numerous times in the stream, he reorganizes his graveyard in such a way that Faithless Looting is hidden underneath another card, even though he's splaying his graveyard. On more than one occasion he forgets to discard to Faithless Looting
IV. In one game he says "I forgot to discard to Faithless Looting" while playing Conflagrate, and after discarding the 2 cards, still declares 10 points of cumulative damage (when he could have only maxed out for 5- because if he discarded to Faithless Looting, he would have had a 5 card hand)- by waffling halfway through and saying "no, 1 point to Jace, 7 to you, right?" WHILE THE GUY IS PUTTING HIS JACE INTO THE GRAVEYARD. Then he forces him to take the combat damage that he said was for Jace. His language is constantly dishonest; and throughout that entire game, he tries to screw with his opponent's memory.

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 Post subject: Re: Presented without comment
AgePosted: 2019-May-25 3:23 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Feb-07 4:15 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
*Uktabi_Kong casts Macabre Mockery, targeting this thread*

Happened to watch a few videos about Magic cheats and how to spot and prove them, and the randomest of all questions occurred to me re-reading this thread: is there a reason why the Explore cheat is named thusly? Is there something specific about Explore that makes it more likely that people try to sneak off extra cards, or is it just a general problem with cantrips/cheap draw effects and Explore is merely a particularly common example?

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 Post subject: Re: Presented without comment
AgePosted: 2019-May-26 3:08 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Feb-07 3:37 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Danbury, CT
It's a reference to Alex Bertoncini, who was caught playing multiple land drops off a single explore and then lying about it. More generally, he's an example of a particularly frustrating type of cheater... someone who plays fast and intentionally sloppy, and outwardly seems to be a nice person. This makes it easy for Alex (and others) to play off cheating as, "Aww shucks, guess I made a mistake," and for other people to say, "Naw, he's not a cheater, he's such a nice guy!"

So it kind of stuck as an example.

Also, I missed this thread the first time around, note to Mr Degradation and anyone else who find themselves in a similar situation...

Mr Degradation wrote:
Because it was just an FNM, the TO could only give him a gameloss and a warning that if he did it again; he's get dropped completely.


It's hard to second guess without the full story, but it could be that the TO botched the call in this situation. Typically at regular events (like an FNM), there's no reason to assign a game loss as a penalty... if the TO thought the player was intentionally breaking the rules to gain an advantage, that's grounds for a disqualification and player report. (Note: dropping someone from an event is different from issuing a disqualification). Furthermore, the TO always has the option to ask a player to leave the venue, and then drop the player without issuing a penalty. Businesses have pretty broad rights to refuse service, and an owner/manager could tell a problem player to take a hike.

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 Post subject: Re: Presented without comment
AgePosted: 2019-May-27 10:51 am 

Joined: 2009-Apr-21 3:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Palm Springs Area, CA
I remember a few play mistakes I've made.

Using Jace, the Mindsculptor for the first time I forgot to put two cards back on top. My friend saw me do it, thought I was cheating. I was upset he didnt tell me in the moment- I won that match handily because of it.

Another time I was being sloppy and ended up with some cards from my graveyard back in my hand (I'd set my hand down to do something else). I have no idea how the cards got there, but at least I noticed right away. Again, a friend saw but said nothing.

It just tells me you have to watch your opponent carefully and always assume your friends are cheats.

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