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MTG Commander/Elder Dragon Highlander • View topic - Overrated Cards in EDH

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 Post subject: Overrated Cards in EDH
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-07 4:33 pm 

Joined: 2019-Jun-05 11:49 pm
Age: Drake
(Disclaimer: This isn’t meant to make anyone who runs these cards feel bad. At the end of the day this is just my personal opinion and is not meant to offend anyone)

What are some cards that you think are overrated? Maybe cards that look really good or are considered "staples" but always tend to underperform when you actually wind up using them. I'll start off with this one:

Sunforger is a card that is often touted as an auto include for Boros decks. I don't want to speak for anyone else, but I have personally never seen this card pull its weight in any deck my friends or myself have run it in. Now, that could be because we just haven't figured out how to use it to its full potential, but there are a few reasons why I don't think this card deserves all of the hype it gets.

For one, there's the mana cost. For a total of 6RW you get to tutor out a 4 CMC or less instant and cast it for free. Now I'll be the first to admit that for Boros, this is definitely a cool and unique effect, but eight mana is still eight mana. Even in the rare instance that you have an absurdly large amount of mana available (hard to pull off in Boros), you can still only activate it once during a singular opponent’s turn, after which you’ll have to wait through the rest of the turn cycle until you can re-equip it at sorcery speed on your next turn. Sure, you could spend absurd amounts of mana to use it multiple times on your own turn, but at that point the purpose of the ability (instant speed interaction) seems wasted. Either way, the resources set aside to maintain Sunforger's usefulness are almost always better served elsewhere, especially in Boros decks where speed is of the essence when trying to beat three other opponents with a color combination that relies mostly on combat damage to win.

Secondly, in my opinion, the risks and trade offs of running Sunforger outweigh the benefits it offers to most Boros strategies. As I said before, there is the glaring issue of mana cost, but there are other factors that play into this as well. Equipment cards in general are vulnerable to all sorts of removal, whether it's targeted towards the artifact itself or the creature it's equipped to. Sunforger in particular paints a pretty big target for removal because of its potential (although rarely achieved in my experience) versatility. This can lead to a lot of "blowout" situations where you spend a lot of Mana to cast and equip Sunforger, only to have it or the creature it's trying to equip get removed. It’s also worth mentioning that Sunforger’s ability is anything but subtle, and gives your opponents a pretty big heads up that they ought to play around it. Additionally, if you look at the list of potential targets for Sunforger’s ability, a vast majority of them appear to be singular removal spells and burn spells. So in the best case scenario, you spend a total of EIGHT mana to cast Sunforger, equip it, resolve its ability, and, assuming there no disruption from your opponents, you get what usually amounts to a free singular removal spell. Compare this to the worst case (and far more common) scenario, where your opponents have removal, counterspells, or other disruption for the ability and you have to pass the turn because you tapped out to make use of Sunforger.

Okay I’m done rambling haha. Sorry for the long post, I just wanted to provide some context to my argument. I’d love to hear about any other cards people think are overrated, since I think this is a topic we can all relate to.


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 Post subject: Re: Overrated Cards in EDH
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-08 12:49 am 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
I think Sunforger is great. Yes, you invest 8 total mana for the first spell you cast with it (and 5 per thereafter), but so what? Firstly, it's not like it has to be all at once. You can spread that cost over multiple turns, and it's not like you have to spend all your mana every turn - frequently you CAN'T spend all your mana every turn. Secondly, as you point out, this effect is very good in Boros, which otherwise lacks the ability to tutor answers like this. You need to have a good package for it in your deck, which means devoting slots to things it can fetch - ideally things that are good on their own if you draw them. Most decks should be running such cards anyways - StP, PtE, , , , , , , , , , , , , , ... I can go on and on with this. And that's just in Boros. If you're in R/W/U you can also grab counterspells like and .

Basically, Sunforger is a swiss army knife of all the good instants in your deck, and yes you pay more total mana for that versatility, but it's really incredible versatility. Also, any deck with Sunforger should have to recur the spell you fetch.

All that said, it's not an auto-include in every deck with red and white, so if that's the standard we're measuring against, then yes, it's overrated. But I can say from personal experience that when it's good, it's REALLY good.

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 Post subject: Re: Overrated Cards in EDH
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-08 1:12 am 

Joined: 2019-Jun-05 11:49 pm
Age: Drake


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 Post subject: Re: Overrated Cards in EDH
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-08 3:17 am 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
Sunforger is awesome in decks built around it. Sunforger is only okay or worse in decks not built around it. On a related note, + Sunforger + is kinda bonkers. Pay RRW every turn to search your library, play virtually any instant in your deck, and then likely return that searched instant back to your hand.

I think it's possible might have become overrated from what it used to be. It's not a bad card, but it's much better when you can take advantage of ETB/LTB effects rather than just using it as a single ramp card. There's so many solid mana rocks now and other artifacts which interact with lands.


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 Post subject: Re: Overrated Cards in EDH
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-08 3:38 am 
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Joined: 2012-Feb-07 4:15 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
If we're talking overrated, I've got two pretty big ones.

The first is . Simply put, I think it's a $10 . There is the occasional deck where it will have some special purpose, like helping out non-mana lands like , but aside from that I think any deck that wants the effect already has the tools to achieve it anyway, even with a budget manabase. And in the deck where your color requirements are so greedy that you "need" such an effect, it's one card in the 99 and not easy to rely on.

The other effect that I think is heavily overrated is every single variant. is the biggest culprit, although 's $12 price tag is also a head scratcher for me. First off, I think there are only two deck types where the effect even makes the standard of "actually does something useful". Those decks being mana decks like mono green Omnath or new Jhoira, and control decks led by a card advantage engine commander. And yet I see those cards being touted as complete and total staples, on the level of Sol Ring or Lightning Greaves.

I'm also not even sure that the effect is that good even in the decks where it does anything. Is having a grip of 8 cards really that much better than a grip of 7? Each card has an opportunity cost to be played over the other ones in your hand, and you only have so much mana and viable situations.

The one actual benefit I think comes from both cards is that they reduce the need to think about the logistics of the game and just focus on the strategy. Who cares if I accidentally tap my when I meant to tap my when I have Lantern in play? And same deal with discarding at the end of the turn; rather than deciding between and I can just have both of them and not have to think about it.


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 Post subject: Re: Overrated Cards in EDH
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-08 4:47 am 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire

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"The President's job - and if someone sufficiently vain and stupid is picked he won't realize this - is not to wield power, but to draw attention away from it." -- Douglas Adams, predicting the future.


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 Post subject: Re: Overrated Cards in EDH
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-08 4:52 am 
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Age: Elder Dragon


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 Post subject: Re: Overrated Cards in EDH
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-08 5:38 am 
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Joined: 2010-Dec-10 12:16 pm
Age: Elder Dragon

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 Post subject: Re: Overrated Cards in EDH
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-08 9:29 am 

Joined: 2012-Apr-11 7:17 am
Age: Elder Dragon


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 Post subject: Re: Overrated Cards in EDH
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-08 10:15 am 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire

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"The President's job - and if someone sufficiently vain and stupid is picked he won't realize this - is not to wield power, but to draw attention away from it." -- Douglas Adams, predicting the future.


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 Post subject: Re: Overrated Cards in EDH
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-08 3:10 pm 
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Joined: 2008-Mar-24 12:14 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Oakland, CA


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 Post subject: Re: Overrated Cards in EDH
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-10 10:08 am 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
Just thought of one - .

My experience with this card falls into 2 main groups;
1. It drops turn 2, goes active turn 3, and we wasted more time shuffling up than playing that game.
2. It drops later on, it's controller get's thoroughly pummeled for having the audacity to cast it, and the rest of the table continues without them.

There's very little in-between space with it.

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"The President's job - and if someone sufficiently vain and stupid is picked he won't realize this - is not to wield power, but to draw attention away from it." -- Douglas Adams, predicting the future.


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 Post subject: Re: Overrated Cards in EDH
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-13 3:09 pm 

Joined: 2019-Jun-05 11:49 pm
Age: Drake
I'm glad people are using this thread and a lot of interesting ideas have been brought up. I thought of another card that I think fits this category:

The design of this card is definitely awesome and I've put it in many, many decks over the years. But lately I've come to realize that it's not nearly as good of a card as I've given it credit for. First off, it's a dead card for the first six turns of the game, maybe a little less if you have some land ramp in your deck. Second, when it does eventually come down, it does nothing until your next upkeep, and is extremely vulnerable until then. With one toughness, it dies to a light breeze, and with one power it barely qualifies as a chump blocker. It becomes an immediate target for removal, and I have played very few games where it sticks around long enough to even get a single dragon out of it. Even if it miraculously survives a complete turn cycle and you get that first dragon, the card's extremely vulnerability means it will likely be killed before it can generate a meaningful amount of value.


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 Post subject: Re: Overrated Cards in EDH
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-14 12:22 am 
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Joined: 2006-Dec-31 12:26 pm
Age: Elder Dragon


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 Post subject: Re: Overrated Cards in EDH
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-14 12:55 am 
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Joined: 2011-Jan-02 5:25 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Costa La Haya, capital del ducado Holanda
If it's not a 2/2 it bearly qualifies as a chump blocker.

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