Login | Register


All times are UTC - 7 hours


It is currently 2019-Nov-18 5:24 pm




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Sexism in Mtg community
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-23 3:53 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2018-Aug-19 4:17 pm
Age: Wyvern
I’m not sure if this topic is out of line for this forum (if it is please let me know) but I had an experience somewhat recently that I wanted to share and see if anybody has had a similar situation happen to them. Lately I’ve been getting my friend (who is a girl) into magic, because she has played D&D for many years and expressed interest in the game after hearing me talk about it so much. Anyway, after teaching her the basics, which she picked up on very quickly, I decided to take her to an FNM at my local game store. I figured that going to a draft would be a good way for her to get experience deck building and learning how to play against opponents in a slightly more competitive environment. The actual drafting part went fine: she enjoyed the process of choosing cards and building a deck from scratch (I gave her a few pointers beforehand about building for limited and honestly she managed to draft a very impressive deck all things considered). It was when it came time to actually play that things took a turn. Given that she was one of only two women at the event, all three of her matches were against guys. Her first match went great: she managed to win 2-1 and her opponent was very gracious, communicative and patient with her. Her next two matches were, in her words, against some of the most toxic and obnoxious men she has ever met. The first guy was both extremely impatient and condescending of her, both telling her to hurry up when she was taking time to make a decision, and quickly pointing out the “obvious” mistakes she made that caused her to ultimately lose the match. After the match was over, he told her not to feel bad, because the game is “usually harder for women to understand.” The next guy was a different kind of awful. Long story short, she trounced him 2-0 and he was a sore loser about it the entire time. Constant sighing and eye rolling and general pissing and moaning about how “unfair” everything was. At the end of it all, he told her that the reason she won was because he wasn’t used to playing against girls and that if she were a guy he probably would have played better. She didn’t even tell me any of this until the car ride home because she didn’t want to make a big deal out of it while we were there. Obviously I was absolutely pissed that my friend had to experience that, and I was wondering if anyone had any similar stories. Sorry for the long post but I think it’s important to share stuff like this.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sexism in Mtg community
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-23 4:11 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2010-Jul-18 9:59 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
If this was a sanctioned FNM (I assume it was) WotC is actually taking this sort of bullshit really seriously. If you raise it with the TO, they should report it to WotC. I understand that's a pretty big step to take though though and may not be worth the hassle.

Both of these guys are different kinds of dicks - if the second guy got trounced 2-0 by another guy I guarantee you he'd come up with equally BS excuses for his loss. The first guy is just plain sexist and is exactly the kind of player WotC don't want playing their game.

Unfortunately I can't give you any more advice than that; I hope others can.

Also, big ups to your friend for 2-1'ing their first FNM!

_________________
"Degenerate, unfun decks generally come from degenerate, unfun players in my experience." - Cthulus Thrall

"- if this spell is played ten times in a given game then I suggest you warm up the tar and pluck some chickens" - tarnar

The internet's great at making noise, and poor at operating pants. There's gonna be half-dressed mobs screeching half-assed arguments for the rest of the 21st century - Kemev


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sexism in Mtg community
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-23 4:13 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2018-Aug-19 4:17 pm
Age: Wyvern
I appreciate the advice and I honestly may have a chat with the owner of the store seeing as this wasn’t all that long ago and depending on if my friend is comfortable with it. Also haha thanks she is way better at the game then when I first started playing.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sexism in Mtg community
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-23 11:32 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2006-Dec-31 12:26 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Viperion wrote:
if the second guy got trounced 2-0 by another guy I guarantee you he'd come up with equally BS excuses for his loss.

Exactly what I was thinking. And I've played against people like that. They just think they're soooo good at the game, and will make up excuses when comes up that he's not that good.

Closest experience to this I've experienced was probably my brother's ex-girlfriend from years back. She'd learned to play a bit, and came out to join us at FNM. After drafting cards, she was talking about how she'd drafted all the pretty birds and horses. Another player there (who typically brags about his skills, and he's relatively well skilled) was mocking her for that a bit, and the two of them got paired up.

She ended up beating him. She said she knew what she was doing while drafting, as it turns out that the pretty birds and horses were birds and pegasuses ... they all fly. Flying is pretty darn strong in draft when most of your troops have it :)

He wasn't overly happy at the loss, but he didn't really take it poorly. It was mostly the expectation to automatically beat someone who drafted "pretty birds and horses" :)


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sexism in Mtg community
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-24 7:21 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2011-Feb-07 3:37 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Danbury, CT
This is a pervasive problem in gaming. Magic's the biggest tabletop brand, so in game stores it's most obvious with MTG, but it sucks everywhere, across every game.

Cows5467 wrote:
I appreciate the advice and I honestly may have a chat with the owner of the store seeing as this wasn’t all that long ago and depending on if my friend is comfortable with it.


This is reasonable, but definitely check with your friend first... she might not want to make a thing out of it. But if she's ok with speaking up, there are a lot of upstanding owners/TOs who want to hear this kind of feedback.

(If you have an owner/TO who doesn't want this kind of feedback, you've still learned something important, which is that you might be in the market for a new store to play at.)

_________________
The deck-o-pedia


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sexism in Mtg community
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-24 8:34 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
Cows5467 wrote:
The first guy was both extremely impatient and condescending of her, both telling her to hurry up when she was taking time to make a decision, and quickly pointing out the “obvious” mistakes she made that caused her to ultimately lose the match. After the match was over, he told her not to feel bad, because the game is “usually harder for women to understand.”

Wow. Just wow. :facepalm:

_________________
"The President's job - and if someone sufficiently vain and stupid is picked he won't realize this - is not to wield power, but to draw attention away from it." -- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide tot he Galaxy Radio Transcripts predicting the future.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sexism in Mtg community
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-24 1:07 pm 

Joined: 2014-Jul-26 11:35 am
Age: Elder Dragon
It is a terrible problem that we really need to get better at. Both the sexism and the general dickheadishness. It's particularly unfortunate your friend got both at the same time.

I know I've failed a bit at times, hopefully never in such a vulgar way, but just the other day I was playing on MTGO and I used "him" referring to one of my opponents, who corrected me that they are not a "him".

Overt BS like the OP describes is easier to spot and call out for what it is, even though it's still not called out enough. I worry about the unconscious bias society has and I think we all can work on improving it.

_________________
Favourite Deck:
Ghost Council of Orzhova

Playing Online:
Noyan Darr & Sedris Zombie Guy


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sexism in Mtg community
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-24 2:22 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2012-Feb-07 4:15 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
The only real comment I have to add is that unfortunately, dickface #2 might not have been lying. I've met a fair number of guys who are perfectly skilled at whatever game they're playing, unless their opponent has breasts in which case their brain turns into a tipped-over carton of milk. Admittedly it's mostly puberty-stricken middle and high schoolers so it's slightly understandable, but then there's still the occasional 40+ year-old guy who still hasn't matured past the "girls are weird aliens from another dimension" phase.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sexism in Mtg community
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-24 10:50 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2018-Aug-19 4:17 pm
Age: Wyvern
Uktabi_Kong wrote:
The only real comment I have to add is that unfortunately, dickface #2 might not have been lying. I've met a fair number of guys who are perfectly skilled at whatever game they're playing, unless their opponent has breasts in which case their brain turns into a tipped-over carton of milk. Admittedly it's mostly puberty-stricken middle and high schoolers so it's slightly understandable, but then there's still the occasional 40+ year-old guy who still hasn't matured past the "girls are weird aliens from another dimension" phase.


My answer to those kinds of people is to grow up. Women who want to play the game shouldn’t have to feel like an alien every time they walk into a store.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sexism in Mtg community
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-25 8:20 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
Cows5467 wrote:
Uktabi_Kong wrote:
The only real comment I have to add is that unfortunately, dickface #2 might not have been lying. I've met a fair number of guys who are perfectly skilled at whatever game they're playing, unless their opponent has breasts in which case their brain turns into a tipped-over carton of milk. Admittedly it's mostly puberty-stricken middle and high schoolers so it's slightly understandable, but then there's still the occasional 40+ year-old guy who still hasn't matured past the "girls are weird aliens from another dimension" phase.


My answer to those kinds of people is to grow up. Women who want to play the game shouldn’t have to feel like an alien every time they walk into a store.

More importantly, it's one thing to be uncomfortable around the opposite sex and another altogether to vocalize something like that. Honesty is not always the best policy.

specter404 wrote:
the other day I was playing on MTGO and I used "him" referring to one of my opponents, who corrected me that they are not a "him".

At least you weren't face-to-face. What is the proper pronoun when you don't know? "It" seems pretty rude, and defaulting to "her" wouldn't be appreciated by the majority of male players. Most RPG rulebooks I've read, for example, simply pick one or the other and use it in all cases, for the sake of readability.

_________________
"The President's job - and if someone sufficiently vain and stupid is picked he won't realize this - is not to wield power, but to draw attention away from it." -- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide tot he Galaxy Radio Transcripts predicting the future.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sexism in Mtg community
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-25 8:50 am 

Joined: 2014-Jul-26 11:35 am
Age: Elder Dragon
They, them or their is usually a good option for unknown or unspecified. So I should have said "We really need to deal with their aetherflux reservoir"

_________________
Favourite Deck:
Ghost Council of Orzhova

Playing Online:
Noyan Darr & Sedris Zombie Guy


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sexism in Mtg community
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-26 4:07 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2011-Mar-10 4:30 am
Age: Drake
I'm sorry your friend had such a poor experience. I've never had any such experiences in my Magic life. I've played the odd pre-release, played the occasional FNM, and mostly just Commander, whether at the LGS or the local pizzeria or eventually at our kitchen table (which has better, cheaper pizza).

I've had my fair share of whiny losers, including the grown men who get all teary-eyed when they're "ganged up on"--ignoring the fact that that was the only thing keeping them from comboing off.

But no one has ever said anything about girls not being good at Magic to me, and if they're distracted by my breasts, they're generally too shy to admit as much.

Even my teenage daughter, who played Modern until the commute got too long, had no such issues.

We've been playing since Zendikar.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sexism in Mtg community
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-29 7:25 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2018-Aug-19 4:17 pm
Age: Wyvern
Isabelle wrote:
I'm sorry your friend had such a poor experience. I've never had any such experiences in my Magic life. I've played the odd pre-release, played the occasional FNM, and mostly just Commander, whether at the LGS or the local pizzeria or eventually at our kitchen table (which has better, cheaper pizza).

I've had my fair share of whiny losers, including the grown men who get all teary-eyed when they're "ganged up on"--ignoring the fact that that was the only thing keeping them from comboing off.

But no one has ever said anything about girls not being good at Magic to me, and if they're distracted by my breasts, they're generally too shy to admit as much.

Even my teenage daughter, who played Modern until the commute got too long, had no such issues.

We've been playing since Zendikar.


That’s reassuring to hear. I guess there is hope after all haha. Thanks for the advice.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sexism in Mtg community
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-29 7:34 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2018-Aug-19 4:17 pm
Age: Wyvern
Quick update on this story. I talked to the owner of the store (with permission from my friend) about the two jerks in question. He immediately recognized the first of the two guys and said that he’s received complaints about him before, and basically told me that we wouldn’t have to worry about running into him again any time soon. In terms of the other guy (the sore loser) he said that he’ll keep an eye out for similar behavior and determine how to handle the situation. He also offered to let my friend draft for free the next time she comes into the store. After relaying all of that to my friend, she feels satisfied with the outcome and says that she’ll probably continue to go to FNM when she gets the chance. I appreciate everyone’s advice and I thought some of you might want to hear the aftermath of all this.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sexism in Mtg community
AgePosted: 2019-Jun-29 12:19 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2010-Jul-18 9:59 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
That's great to hear - good outcome all round. Sounds like the first guy is taking an enforced holiday :twisted:

_________________
"Degenerate, unfun decks generally come from degenerate, unfun players in my experience." - Cthulus Thrall

"- if this spell is played ten times in a given game then I suggest you warm up the tar and pluck some chickens" - tarnar

The internet's great at making noise, and poor at operating pants. There's gonna be half-dressed mobs screeching half-assed arguments for the rest of the 21st century - Kemev


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 52 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron