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 Post subject: Re: Throne of Eldraine (Spoilers)
AgePosted: 2019-Sep-06 1:11 am 
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Shabbaman wrote:
Well, paying twice for a paper and digital precon certainly dampens my enthusiasm for Arena a bit.


It is a lot cheaper to get it on Arena, if you do drafts you can build a collection really quick. I have like 95% of cards and I spend about $20 every other month or so. I definitely cannot say that for paper, yet I spend probably $50-100 a month for physical cards.

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The usual answer is "the social contract", but I guess that is not what you are looking for. Try house rules.


With perfect mana, reasonable removal, disruption, and card advantage, we're back to pitchforks and torches. And it's about to get worse for those who do not enjoy the game as Richard Garfield intended, playing as few win conditions as possible and prompting concession after all hopes (and spells) are lost. - Shaheen Soorani


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 Post subject: Re: Throne of Eldraine (Spoilers)
AgePosted: 2019-Sep-06 1:15 am 
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It looks like Command Tower is being printed in a main set!

I'm sure a lot of Commander players are happy to have easier access to a staple land. I know it's not super expensive, but it IS a $2-3 "common".

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 Post subject: Re: Throne of Eldraine (Spoilers)
AgePosted: 2019-Sep-06 6:07 am 
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archmagemc wrote:
It looks like Command Tower is being printed in a main set.


Only in the Brawl precons I guess.

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 Post subject: Re: Throne of Eldraine (Spoilers)
AgePosted: 2019-Sep-06 6:52 am 
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Joined: 2016-Nov-27 2:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Shabbaman wrote:
archmagemc wrote:
It looks like Command Tower is being printed in a main set.


Only in the Brawl precons I guess.

That's correct, this will only show up in the brawl precons. Although they'll be standard-legal (otherwise they wouldn't be brawl-legal) these cards won't ever appear in boosters.

As a generality, Maro's made it clear that cards in standard boosters will never specifically reference commander. That will only happen in Commander- and Brawl-specific products.

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 Post subject: Re: Throne of Eldraine (Spoilers)
AgePosted: 2019-Sep-06 7:02 am 
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Joined: 2011-Feb-07 3:37 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Danbury, CT
I'm not really feeling this set. It seems like someone said, "Hey, Lorwyn didn't really sell, but we want to do another fairy tale block, so how do we do Return to Lorwyn without admitting that it's Lorwyn?" And I don't really get some of the subthemes the set pushes, like red knights. Or mono-blue artifacts... was that really something Magic needed more of?

I also really dislike Oko, Thief of Crowns as a commander card; it's a super powered repeatable removal in colors that don't need the extra help. Oko's also one of those cards that's really punishing for people trying to play fair decks. I expect to hear lots of conversations like:

"Mwahaha, now that I have my epic dragon..."
"Nope, he's an elk"
"What, like til end of turn?"
"Nope, permanently elk'd"

The brawl decks are pretty neat though.

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 Post subject: Re: Throne of Eldraine (Spoilers)
AgePosted: 2019-Sep-06 8:23 am 
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Joined: 2010-Dec-10 12:16 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
spacemonaut wrote:
Shabbaman wrote:
archmagemc wrote:
It looks like Command Tower is being printed in a main set.


Only in the Brawl precons I guess.

That's correct, this will only show up in the brawl precons. Although they'll be standard-legal (otherwise they wouldn't be brawl-legal) these cards won't ever appear in boosters.

As a generality, Maro's made it clear that cards in standard boosters will never specifically reference commander. That will only happen in Commander- and Brawl-specific products.


That might be entirely accurate, Gavin's articles (linked above) said that the brawls specific cards are not in the draft boosters, but to boost supply they are include in the collector's boosters (whatever those are - probably like the "guild" boosters from GRN and RNA - those are "Theme Boosters" I guess)

Relevant sections
Quote:
Secondly, since these new cards were not going to be in ELD Draft Booster packs (they will, however, be in Collector Boosters), we had to be careful about their power level for Standard. If these cards were top-tier Standard cards, then card availability may have been an issue.


Quote:
In the Throne of Eldraine Brawl Decks, you will find 20 unique cards that aren't in Draft Boosters. (They can still be found in Collector Boosters.) Each deck has seven of them—four cards unique to that deck, one card shared with one other Brawl Deck, and two cards shared with each other Brawl Deck. These cards are all legal in Standard, Brawl, and all other formats.


Quote:
And finally, we wanted to make sure these cards were aimed at Brawl (or Commander) and not competitive Standard. While there will be plenty of these cards floating around between these decks and the copies people open in Collector Boosters, these are going to be Standard-legal, and our goal was to make cards awesome for Brawl and Commander, not ones intended to tear up the top tables of a Mythic Championship.


Hopefully that would include Command tower and other reprint Brawl-specific cards.

Booster "Types"

Quote:
Draft Booster

This is the booster you know, the one Magic has had for 26 years. The only change we're making to it is giving it a name. We're now referring to it as the Draft Booster. It's the booster intended for drafting. If you like Magic as-is and want to continue buying the same thing, you can. The card make-up for it is not changing (although, it will have the borderless planeswalkers and showcase cards).


Quote:
Theme Booster

This is a booster aimed at players who either prioritize getting lots of cards or prefer to have more control on the kind of cards they're opening. Each Theme Booster comes with 35 cards. Also, the Theme Boosters are each focused on a theme, so the buyer has a better sense of what they're going to get. Each set can handle its Theme Boosters differently, but Throne of Eldraine will offer color-themed boosters in which all the cards in the booster can go into a monocolor deck of that color.


Quote:
Collector Booster

The Collector Booster is aimed at the player who values collecting the cards. Our expectation is that these Collector Boosters will range between $20 to $25 per booster, but that will depend on your region and where you shop. It's designed to be the best value if you're prioritizing collecting hard-to-find cards. You'll have more access to foil cards as well as to the various treatments I talked about above. In addition, it will also be the only booster where you can get extended-art cards. I'll go into much more detail in the third section about what you can expect in the Collector Booster.

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 Post subject: Re: Throne of Eldraine (Spoilers)
AgePosted: 2019-Sep-08 1:04 pm 

Joined: 2014-Jul-26 11:35 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Kemev wrote:
I'm not really feeling this set. It seems like someone said, "Hey, Lorwyn didn't really sell, but we want to do another fairy tale block, so how do we do Return to Lorwyn without admitting that it's Lorwyn?" And I don't really get some of the subthemes the set pushes, like red knights. Or mono-blue artifacts... was that really something Magic needed more of?

I also really dislike Oko, Thief of Crowns as a commander card; it's a super powered repeatable removal in colors that don't need the extra help. Oko's also one of those cards that's really punishing for people trying to play fair decks.

I disagree with the lorwyn comparison. This set isn't tribal which was a huge part of the lorwyn design. Faries exist, but they're not supported as a tribe so far, the only supported tribe is knights. The subthemes are esper artifact/enchantments and mardu knights/equipment, both of which make plenty of sense, but mono-blue has had an artifact focus for as long as Ive been playing (10 years or so), and red knight's aren't unprecedented.

Other themes from the brawl decks seem to be Jund Sacrifice and Bant Flicker (not really flicker but repeatable ETB), neither of which are very Lorwyn to me.

The brawl decks do look interesting, nothing interesting enough for me to buy the whole deck, but I can see myself grabbing some singles. I have enjoyed playing them on Arena last week.

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 Post subject: Re: Throne of Eldraine (Spoilers)
AgePosted: 2019-Sep-08 3:12 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
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Kemev wrote:
I also really dislike Oko, Thief of Crowns as a commander card; it's a super powered repeatable removal in colors that don't need the extra help. Oko's also one of those cards that's really punishing for people trying to play fair decks.

Agreed. Also not fond of the fact that it's a repeatable way to deny people their generals if they don't have some sort of sac outlet available. Sure they can attack (probably attack Oko) to try and get it killed, and sure it'll die incidentally to sweepers, but especially for decks that are built around their generals, it's a real dick move.

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 Post subject: Re: Throne of Eldraine (Spoilers)
AgePosted: 2019-Sep-08 6:51 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Jul-18 9:59 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Most (all?) decks that absolutely, positively, 100% need their general in play to execute their gameplan have ways to make it hexproof/shrouded

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 Post subject: Re: Throne of Eldraine (Spoilers)
AgePosted: 2019-Sep-08 8:53 pm 
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Joined: 2013-Oct-26 9:21 am
Age: Dragon
Location: Xenia, OH, USA
archmagemc wrote:
It looks like Command Tower is being printed in a main set!

I'm sure a lot of Commander players are happy to have easier access to a staple land. I know it's not super expensive, but it IS a $2-3 "common".


Not only that, it's GORGEOUS...

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Throne of Eldraine (Spoilers)
AgePosted: 2019-Sep-08 9:04 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Jul-18 9:59 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
It'll only be in the Brawl decks, not in boosters

Edited to add the source because noone believes anything from some random on the internet: https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/1 ... or-only-in

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The internet's great at making noise, and poor at operating pants. There's gonna be half-dressed mobs screeching half-assed arguments for the rest of the 21st century - Kemev


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 Post subject: Re: Throne of Eldraine (Spoilers)
AgePosted: 2019-Sep-08 10:04 pm 

Joined: 2015-Jan-14 2:58 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Viperion wrote:
It'll only be in the Brawl decks, not in boosters

Edited to add the source because noone believes anything from some random on the internet: https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/1 ... or-only-in


Collector boosters, too. Primarily Brawl decks though.

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 Post subject: Re: Throne of Eldraine (Spoilers)
AgePosted: 2019-Sep-09 3:36 pm 

Joined: 2017-Jul-06 3:44 pm
Age: Drake
specter404 wrote:
Kemev wrote:
I'm not really feeling this set. It seems like someone said, "Hey, Lorwyn didn't really sell, but we want to do another fairy tale block, so how do we do Return to Lorwyn without admitting that it's Lorwyn?" And I don't really get some of the subthemes the set pushes, like red knights. Or mono-blue artifacts... was that really something Magic needed more of?

I also really dislike Oko, Thief of Crowns as a commander card; it's a super powered repeatable removal in colors that don't need the extra help. Oko's also one of those cards that's really punishing for people trying to play fair decks.

I disagree with the lorwyn comparison. This set isn't tribal which was a huge part of the lorwyn design. Faries exist, but they're not supported as a tribe so far, the only supported tribe is knights. The subthemes are esper artifact/enchantments and mardu knights/equipment, both of which make plenty of sense, but mono-blue has had an artifact focus for as long as Ive been playing (10 years or so), and red knight's aren't unprecedented.

Other themes from the brawl decks seem to be Jund Sacrifice and Bant Flicker (not really flicker but repeatable ETB), neither of which are very Lorwyn to me.

The brawl decks do look interesting, nothing interesting enough for me to buy the whole deck, but I can see myself grabbing some singles. I have enjoyed playing them on Arena last week.
I think the more accurate comparison you were looking for was Wizards of the Coast asking themselves, "Why don't we release our own version of 'Crimson Moon's Fairy Tale' from Force of Will TCG by turning Grimm into a Planeswalker named Oko without all the anime fanservice for the rest of the expansion / block?"

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 Post subject: Re: Throne of Eldraine (Spoilers)
AgePosted: 2019-Sep-10 8:03 am 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
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Location: New Hampshire
Viperion wrote:
Most (all?) decks that absolutely, positively, 100% need their general in play to execute their gameplan have ways to make it hexproof/shrouded

This is the "Answers exist" fallacy.

The possibility of having ways to defend your general and the likelihood that you're running them doesn't make what this card does any less cancerous.

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 Post subject: Re: Throne of Eldraine (Spoilers)
AgePosted: 2019-Sep-10 8:52 am 
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Joined: 2010-Jul-18 9:59 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
I'm aware of the answers exist fallacy but I believe in this case, my answer isn't it. If you have a deck that absolutely requires you to have a card or cards in play, you can't just run it out there and hope no one does anything about it. You should build in ways to protect/recur those cards.

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