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 Post subject: Re: Who would like a free online course involving EDH?
AgePosted: 2019-Oct-28 12:10 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Dec-10 12:16 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
The first three seem fairly related. What if you broadened the overall scope to "Build Casually, Play Competitively" and broke it down into four to five 2-hr block topics

    - Theme building (or casual decks =/= weak decks): focusing on deck theory and card choices to evoke a theme or story (tribal, mechanic, pop-inspired (e.g. "Witcher" deck - or insert any fan-based theme examples), etc.) and also discuss how card choices affect the theme and when some elements should bend to functionality over theme.
    - Group Dynamics: as previous. I'm guessing a block on examining other's card choices and play styles to identify how player's roles affect the multi-player environment (the player that ignores board state to follow "the plan", the player that revenge-targets attacks/spot removal, kingmakers, etc.). May also delve into the discussions pre and post game in an starting/established group and dealing with players that negatively affect the group's enjoyment of the game.
    - Ethics and communication: as per original plan
    - Playing competitively, for the fun of the group: The playing competitively part of the Sheldon Equation (TM), discussing things like optimal use of theme deck pieces, reading board states to make "smart" plays, threat assessment, knowing when *not* to make the most "optimal play" (e.g. LD on a player's only X color mana source on turn three - it might be a "optimal" play but the negative impact to the group long-term may outweigh the positive in this one game, etc.)
    - Group play with "new friends": Personalities and play-style effects on multi-player games in a "pick-up" environment. Approaching games with strangers as if you want to see those players again in the future, or build a foundation for a relationship (a.k.a. not being a *%#$ just because they are strangers)
    - Introducing friends and family to MtG/EDH: how to pass along this information as you are teaching the game to somebody you know. How to approach behaviors in others that violate the principals already discussed through the course (without ruining the relationship you already have with the person you are "teaching").

I'm sure there are other topics to explore as well, and any collection of them should each yield a 90-120 minute block of instruction.

_________________
V/R

HK

Hazezon Tamar - Manland theme
Seshiro the Anointed - Snake Tribal
Jedit Ojanen of Efrava - Cat and Warrior Dual Tribal
Doran, the Seige Tower - Wall Tribal
Progenitus - Hydra themed Proliferate Deck
Karona, the False God - Backstabbing Hug


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 Post subject: Re: Who would like a free online course involving EDH?
AgePosted: 2019-Oct-29 10:27 am 
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Joined: 2012-Dec-03 3:16 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Treamayne wrote:
The first three seem fairly related. What if you broadened the overall scope to "Build Casually, Play Competitively" and broke it down into four to five 2-hr block topics

    - Theme building (or casual decks =/= weak decks): focusing on deck theory and card choices to evoke a theme or story (tribal, mechanic, pop-inspired (e.g. "Witcher" deck - or insert any fan-based theme examples), etc.) and also discuss how card choices affect the theme and when some elements should bend to functionality over theme.
    - Group Dynamics: as previous. I'm guessing a block on examining other's card choices and play styles to identify how player's roles affect the multi-player environment (the player that ignores board state to follow "the plan", the player that revenge-targets attacks/spot removal, kingmakers, etc.). May also delve into the discussions pre and post game in an starting/established group and dealing with players that negatively affect the group's enjoyment of the game.
    - Ethics and communication: as per original plan
    - Playing competitively, for the fun of the group: The playing competitively part of the Sheldon Equation (TM), discussing things like optimal use of theme deck pieces, reading board states to make "smart" plays, threat assessment, knowing when *not* to make the most "optimal play" (e.g. LD on a player's only X color mana source on turn three - it might be a "optimal" play but the negative impact to the group long-term may outweigh the positive in this one game, etc.)
    - Group play with "new friends": Personalities and play-style effects on multi-player games in a "pick-up" environment. Approaching games with strangers as if you want to see those players again in the future, or build a foundation for a relationship (a.k.a. not being a *%#$ just because they are strangers)
    - Introducing friends and family to MtG/EDH: how to pass along this information as you are teaching the game to somebody you know. How to approach behaviors in others that violate the principals already discussed through the course (without ruining the relationship you already have with the person you are "teaching").

I'm sure there are other topics to explore as well, and any collection of them should each yield a 90-120 minute block of instruction.


Thank you, I have a lot of similar ideas, I changed the last one to "The Best Decks; how to Theorycraft a More Appropriate Deck" so similar to your Theme building idea, trying to build a deck for the meta, rather than just building a deck with the most broken things you can do etc.

_________________
Shabbaman wrote:
The usual answer is "the social contract", but I guess that is not what you are looking for. Try house rules.


With perfect mana, reasonable removal, disruption, and card advantage, we're back to pitchforks and torches. And it's about to get worse for those who do not enjoy the game as Richard Garfield intended, playing as few win conditions as possible and prompting concession after all hopes (and spells) are lost. - Shaheen Soorani


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 Post subject: Re: Who would like a free online course involving EDH?
AgePosted: 2019-Nov-02 10:40 am 
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Joined: 2012-Dec-03 3:16 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Okay, so I am taking the paper a little bit of a different direction and after staring at it for what seems like forever I cannot find any thing to fix but I know it is there. If you all would be kind enough to check it out I would really appreciate it: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1iWdhasR8dgj2Wqzs8_-VH_8-MO5fbrHZLsFlSyvugCg/edit?usp=sharing

_________________
Shabbaman wrote:
The usual answer is "the social contract", but I guess that is not what you are looking for. Try house rules.


With perfect mana, reasonable removal, disruption, and card advantage, we're back to pitchforks and torches. And it's about to get worse for those who do not enjoy the game as Richard Garfield intended, playing as few win conditions as possible and prompting concession after all hopes (and spells) are lost. - Shaheen Soorani


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 Post subject: Re: Who would like a free online course involving EDH?
AgePosted: 2019-Nov-03 1:15 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Dec-10 12:16 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Read and comments added. It seems mostly unchanged from the prior version, but the expanded focus comes through. Most of my comments are SPAG related, and I tried not to duplicate comments from the last version. Please PM for more detail or questions about comments.

_________________
V/R

HK

Hazezon Tamar - Manland theme
Seshiro the Anointed - Snake Tribal
Jedit Ojanen of Efrava - Cat and Warrior Dual Tribal
Doran, the Seige Tower - Wall Tribal
Progenitus - Hydra themed Proliferate Deck
Karona, the False God - Backstabbing Hug


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 Post subject: Re: Who would like a free online course involving EDH?
AgePosted: 2019-Nov-08 12:07 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Dec-03 3:16 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Okay, so I have moved on to the third course and this one I have to write two papers. If you all would be so kind as to proof-read this one as well I would greatly appreciate it. (don't worry this one is much shorter than the last paper).

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1GSM2v5Kfyg50rnOe3lgWJKvhZXuB62U7xMC1WF93qLU/edit?usp=sharing

_________________
Shabbaman wrote:
The usual answer is "the social contract", but I guess that is not what you are looking for. Try house rules.


With perfect mana, reasonable removal, disruption, and card advantage, we're back to pitchforks and torches. And it's about to get worse for those who do not enjoy the game as Richard Garfield intended, playing as few win conditions as possible and prompting concession after all hopes (and spells) are lost. - Shaheen Soorani


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 Post subject: Re: Who would like a free online course involving EDH?
AgePosted: 2019-Nov-09 10:47 am 
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Joined: 2012-Dec-03 3:16 am
Age: Elder Dragon
I have started a FB group to help will communication. If you are interested in being added please let me know!

_________________
Shabbaman wrote:
The usual answer is "the social contract", but I guess that is not what you are looking for. Try house rules.


With perfect mana, reasonable removal, disruption, and card advantage, we're back to pitchforks and torches. And it's about to get worse for those who do not enjoy the game as Richard Garfield intended, playing as few win conditions as possible and prompting concession after all hopes (and spells) are lost. - Shaheen Soorani


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 Post subject: Re: Who would like a free online course involving EDH?
AgePosted: 2019-Dec-05 1:00 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Dec-03 3:16 am
Age: Elder Dragon
I am working on a personality test for EDH, if you all wouldn't mind taking it and critiquing it please? https://forms.office.com/Pages/ResponsePage.aspx?id=z5Knz2h3QUOIV4F1TCr6H3DrDtjx8kpMtVSvRy6hdaxUQUtMMDVTSlVTQ1FJTVpSSk1MWUgxVDhYRS4u

_________________
Shabbaman wrote:
The usual answer is "the social contract", but I guess that is not what you are looking for. Try house rules.


With perfect mana, reasonable removal, disruption, and card advantage, we're back to pitchforks and torches. And it's about to get worse for those who do not enjoy the game as Richard Garfield intended, playing as few win conditions as possible and prompting concession after all hopes (and spells) are lost. - Shaheen Soorani


Last edited by Inkeyes22 on 2019-Dec-05 11:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Who would like a free online course involving EDH?
AgePosted: 2019-Dec-05 1:58 pm 
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Joined: 2008-Feb-29 5:57 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Duvall, WA
Inkeyes22 wrote:
I am working on a personality test for EDH, if you all wouldn't mind taking it and critiquing it please? https://forms.office.com/Pages/ResponsePage.aspx?id=z5Knz2h3QUOIV4F1TCr6H3DrDtjx8kpMtVSvRy6hdaxUQUtMMDVTSlVTQ1FJTVpSSk1MWUgxVDhYRS4u


cant see the link. says it requires a school or work microsoft account login, not a personal one


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 Post subject: Re: Who would like a free online course involving EDH?
AgePosted: 2019-Dec-05 11:09 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Dec-03 3:16 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Shoe wrote:
Inkeyes22 wrote:
I am working on a personality test for EDH, if you all wouldn't mind taking it and critiquing it please? https://forms.office.com/Pages/ResponsePage.aspx?id=z5Knz2h3QUOIV4F1TCr6H3DrDtjx8kpMtVSvRy6hdaxUQUtMMDVTSlVTQ1FJTVpSSk1MWUgxVDhYRS4u


cant see the link. says it requires a school or work microsoft account login, not a personal one


Sorry about that, it should be fixed now

_________________
Shabbaman wrote:
The usual answer is "the social contract", but I guess that is not what you are looking for. Try house rules.


With perfect mana, reasonable removal, disruption, and card advantage, we're back to pitchforks and torches. And it's about to get worse for those who do not enjoy the game as Richard Garfield intended, playing as few win conditions as possible and prompting concession after all hopes (and spells) are lost. - Shaheen Soorani


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 Post subject: Re: Who would like a free online course involving EDH?
AgePosted: 2019-Dec-06 6:38 am 
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Joined: 2008-Feb-29 5:57 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Duvall, WA
Inkeyes22 wrote:
Shoe wrote:
Inkeyes22 wrote:
I am working on a personality test for EDH, if you all wouldn't mind taking it and critiquing it please? https://forms.office.com/Pages/ResponsePage.aspx?id=z5Knz2h3QUOIV4F1TCr6H3DrDtjx8kpMtVSvRy6hdaxUQUtMMDVTSlVTQ1FJTVpSSk1MWUgxVDhYRS4u


cant see the link. says it requires a school or work microsoft account login, not a personal one


Sorry about that, it should be fixed now


and done


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 Post subject: Re: Who would like a free online course involving EDH?
AgePosted: 2019-Dec-06 9:18 am 
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Joined: 2010-Dec-10 12:16 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Also done. Though Question 5 seems disingenuous. Also, question 7 really leaves off a lot of actual options.

Using a spoiler tag for those that don't want to see it before taking the questionnaire.
5. I am very much an INTJ; however, UB is far from my preferred color pair. I answered by my actual MBTI profile, because I have no idea how you allocated colors and pairs to the MBTI.

7. How about "Curve varies by deck needs" and "Creatures and non-creatures are curved independently" (e.g my Beast tribal creatures curve very high [duh], so I made my non-creature portion of the deck curve low to balance it out)? I'm sure there are other options I have not thought of.

************

Other thoughts:

8. This was hard to answer, as I might pay more for a theme land, but only ever one copy (e.g. Cavern of Souls, but just for a "dual" or mana fixing land? no more than 5 (excepting trade/pack/pre-con).

10. What kind of mono-W deck? Tokens, reanimator, fliers, aggro? Choice here varies based on deck type as much as deck CI.

_________________
V/R

HK

Hazezon Tamar - Manland theme
Seshiro the Anointed - Snake Tribal
Jedit Ojanen of Efrava - Cat and Warrior Dual Tribal
Doran, the Seige Tower - Wall Tribal
Progenitus - Hydra themed Proliferate Deck
Karona, the False God - Backstabbing Hug


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 Post subject: Re: Who would like a free online course involving EDH?
AgePosted: 2019-Dec-06 11:38 am 
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Joined: 2012-Dec-03 3:16 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Treamayne wrote:
Also done. Though Question 5 seems disingenuous. Also, question 7 really leaves off a lot of actual options.

Using a spoiler tag for those that don't want to see it before taking the questionnaire.
5. I am very much an INTJ; however, UB is far from my preferred color pair. I answered by my actual MBTI profile, because I have no idea how you allocated colors and pairs to the MBTI.

7. How about "Curve varies by deck needs" and "Creatures and non-creatures are curved independently" (e.g my Beast tribal creatures curve very high [duh], so I made my non-creature portion of the deck curve low to balance it out)? I'm sure there are other options I have not thought of.

************

Other thoughts:

8. This was hard to answer, as I might pay more for a theme land, but only ever one copy (e.g. Cavern of Souls, but just for a "dual" or mana fixing land? no more than 5 (excepting trade/pack/pre-con).

10. What kind of mono-W deck? Tokens, reanimator, fliers, aggro? Choice here varies based on deck type as much as deck CI.


Writing tests are hard, ya'll :P

Thanks for giving me input so that I can get this really refined. Eventually I want to have 20-25 really good questions to help figure out where people fall within the Casual-Competitive spectrum.

#5: I have been trying to find a really great personality test for EDH, and so I was going to try to use some already established work (no reason to reinvent the wheel). I also am INTJ, but don't really think I am U/B. I think I am maybe Esper, Jeskai or Mardu. If I had to pick one, I would say I am Esper.
#7: I am trying to get a "competitive" rating, and most cEDH decks are about a 2.3 mana curve. That is why I put that in. I know that there will always be some subjectiveness and if someone has a 65% rating versus a 75% rating will sometimes vary based on when someone takes the test.
#8: Another thing that can seperate competitive decks versus casual is if you don't have the best lands you can lose in cEDH but in more casual circles the difference between a $1 land versus an ABUR dual doesn't punish you as much.
#10: I agree, I think this question just doesn't test what I was really looking for. I need to reword it or maybe rethink this question in general.

_________________
Shabbaman wrote:
The usual answer is "the social contract", but I guess that is not what you are looking for. Try house rules.


With perfect mana, reasonable removal, disruption, and card advantage, we're back to pitchforks and torches. And it's about to get worse for those who do not enjoy the game as Richard Garfield intended, playing as few win conditions as possible and prompting concession after all hopes (and spells) are lost. - Shaheen Soorani


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 Post subject: Re: Who would like a free online course involving EDH?
AgePosted: 2019-Dec-06 12:23 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Dec-10 12:16 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Inkeyes22 wrote:

#5: I have been trying to find a really great personality test for EDH, and so I was going to try to use some already established work (no reason to reinvent the wheel). I also am INTJ, but don't really think I am U/B. I think I am maybe Esper, Jeskai or Mardu. If I had to pick one, I would say I am Esper.




So, did you pair the CIs to the MBTIs, or is that something you found?

For a magic personality test, you could look for/build something that tests in a manner similar to a normal MBTI. Have a list of statements and the respondent agrees or disagrees. Each statement would be an indicator for a color and/or play-style preference. The scoring would show if there is a clear preference for some/any of the tested attributes; or if the respondent is fairly equal across a range of attributes.

Example:

I would rather Stone Rain the mana short player to eliminate competition than Fertilid them a land to help them get in the game.

I prefer a solid defense to big swingy plays.

My ideal turn 5 four creature would be Darien, King of Kjeldor over Carnage Tyrant

etc.


Obviously those are just top-of-my-head examples. However, as long as you have an even number of questions testing each attribute (for example, five testing degrees of casual and five testing degrees of competitive; and/or three each testing example stereotypical C plays) it shouldn't be hard to average the responses and graph roughly where on each "spectrum" that respondent lies.

_________________
V/R

HK

Hazezon Tamar - Manland theme
Seshiro the Anointed - Snake Tribal
Jedit Ojanen of Efrava - Cat and Warrior Dual Tribal
Doran, the Seige Tower - Wall Tribal
Progenitus - Hydra themed Proliferate Deck
Karona, the False God - Backstabbing Hug


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 Post subject: Re: Who would like a free online course involving EDH?
AgePosted: 2019-Dec-06 12:56 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Dec-03 3:16 am
Age: Elder Dragon
So, did you pair the CIs to the MBTIs, or is that something you found?

For a magic personality test, you could look for/build something that tests in a manner similar to a normal MBTI. Have a list of statements and the respondent agrees or disagrees. Each statement would be an indicator for a color and/or play-style preference. The scoring would show if there is a clear preference for some/any of the tested attributes; or if the respondent is fairly equal across a range of attributes.

Example:

I would rather Stone Rain the mana short player to eliminate competition than Fertilid them a land to help them get in the game.

I prefer a solid defense to big swingy plays.

My ideal turn 5 four creature would be Darien, King of Kjeldor over Carnage Tyrant

etc.


Obviously those are just top-of-my-head examples. However, as long as you have an even number of questions testing each attribute (for example, five testing degrees of casual and five testing degrees of competitive; and/or three each testing example stereotypical C plays) it shouldn't be hard to average the responses and graph roughly where on each "spectrum" that respondent lies.


I did find one that I agreed with about 80-90% https://www.quora.com/What-is-each-personality-types-MTG-color-pairing

I am working on my own test, but figured if I put something out I would learn more than just theorycrafting until I submitted it for grading. I will try to get my own out asap to get some feedback.

Thank you again for helping out!

_________________
Shabbaman wrote:
The usual answer is "the social contract", but I guess that is not what you are looking for. Try house rules.


With perfect mana, reasonable removal, disruption, and card advantage, we're back to pitchforks and torches. And it's about to get worse for those who do not enjoy the game as Richard Garfield intended, playing as few win conditions as possible and prompting concession after all hopes (and spells) are lost. - Shaheen Soorani


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 Post subject: Re: Who would like a free online course involving EDH?
AgePosted: 2019-Dec-09 12:30 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Dec-03 3:16 am
Age: Elder Dragon
So here is a quick quiz, I will eventually have it more fleshed out but I would appreciate feedback. Please be brutally honest. Thank you! https://forms.office.com/Pages/ResponsePage.aspx?id=z5Knz2h3QUOIV4F1TCr6H3DrDtjx8kpMtVSvRy6hdaxUMFdHSjhRMTExOVJaNFE4Nkg5UFMxMzZPMy4u

_________________
Shabbaman wrote:
The usual answer is "the social contract", but I guess that is not what you are looking for. Try house rules.


With perfect mana, reasonable removal, disruption, and card advantage, we're back to pitchforks and torches. And it's about to get worse for those who do not enjoy the game as Richard Garfield intended, playing as few win conditions as possible and prompting concession after all hopes (and spells) are lost. - Shaheen Soorani


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