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 Post subject: Commander at Gen Con 2011
AgePosted: 2011-Apr-28 5:43 pm 

Joined: 2010-Sep-08 9:21 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Well, the event schedule just went out. There's a crush of Commander events all weekend long, including 4 player sit and go events and 4 player sealed Commander with the new product. But one event in particular stands out, beginning at 11 p.m. Thursday night. It's a 64 player event in pods of 3 or 4, three rounds of multiplayer Swiss. Who's in? :) I expect it to sell out fast.

I know Commander isn't designed for tournaments, but I've got to take something crazy and fun and see how it does against cutthroat players.

Also thinking about the M11 sealed grand melee or the M11 booster draft grand melee. Both sound like fun.

TCG1126620
Wizards of the Coast
Commander
Commander Format. Players start in 3 or 4-player games. Players will compete in 3 multiplayer Swiss rounds. Prizes based on overall standings. Points are based on finishing place in each round.

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Current generals:

Thraxiumundar - Sacrifice Effects
Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro - Shaman Tribal Ramp
Darien, King of Kjeldor - Go Ahead and Attack
Talrand, Sky Summoner - Nothin' but Counters, Bounce & Draw


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 Post subject: Re: Commander at Gen Con 2011
AgePosted: 2011-Apr-28 5:58 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Dec-22 7:59 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Brunswick
I fully expect this thread to become EDH mafia 2011 after the event :P

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Retired decks:
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 Post subject: Re: Commander at Gen Con 2011
AgePosted: 2011-Apr-28 7:06 pm 

Joined: 2008-Nov-30 12:36 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
I really want to go to Gen Con someday, but this year if I go to ANY gaming event it will be The Grand Masquerade... haven't played V:tM in years! I miss it.

But yeah, as much as I oppose EDH tourneys on principle, I'd totally be up for this if nothing else for the chance to hobnob with you losers in person for a bit of fun. We could totally be the "EDH Casual Mafia" and conspire against douchebaggery with our non-broken, non-combo decks (and lose!).

God, that sounds like fun. I hate money. :(

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 Post subject: Re: Commander at Gen Con 2011
AgePosted: 2011-May-02 2:23 pm 
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Joined: 2006-May-24 10:14 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Tampa, FL, USA
Does someone want to organize some kind of meet-up?

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 Post subject: Re: Commander at Gen Con 2011
AgePosted: 2011-May-03 9:30 am 

Joined: 2010-Sep-08 9:21 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Maybe dinner at Skyline or Champions a couple hours before the Thursday night event?

_________________
Current generals:

Thraxiumundar - Sacrifice Effects
Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro - Shaman Tribal Ramp
Darien, King of Kjeldor - Go Ahead and Attack
Talrand, Sky Summoner - Nothin' but Counters, Bounce & Draw


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 Post subject: Re: Commander at Gen Con 2011
AgePosted: 2011-May-04 5:44 am 

Joined: 2008-Sep-09 9:54 am
Age: Dragon
Location: New England
I'll be there this year...myself and two of my buddies will be headed in (sort of a bachelor party for one of them, actually.)

Missed this particular event the first time through the list, but it looks like a must-attend. I'll be there for sure.

Meet-up also sounds pretty good.

--->DJ

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General Damage Control - Magic: The Gathering. Elder Dragon Highlander/Commander. No Pulled Punches.

Co-Author, Dear Azami - StarCityGames.com


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 Post subject: Re: Commander at Gen Con 2011
AgePosted: 2011-May-04 9:25 am 

Joined: 2008-Sep-09 9:54 am
Age: Dragon
Location: New England
Speaking of which:

1. Sheldon, are you planning on being there this year?

2. Just read the "EDH Mafia" thing. Wow...what a downer. Did anyone who went since then know if things have changed at all in terms of how the event is run, and/or the typical environment these things bring in?

3. Any suggestions on other cool stuff to do there in general?

--->DJ

_________________
General Damage Control - Magic: The Gathering. Elder Dragon Highlander/Commander. No Pulled Punches.

Co-Author, Dear Azami - StarCityGames.com


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 Post subject: Re: Commander at Gen Con 2011
AgePosted: 2011-May-12 1:20 pm 

Joined: 2008-Jul-03 12:13 am
Age: Hatchling
DJ Catchem wrote:
2. Just read the "EDH Mafia" thing. Wow...what a downer. Did anyone who went since then know if things have changed at all in terms of how the event is run, and/or the typical environment these things bring in?J
These are my events. I'm head judge during the late shift at GenCon and I also help layout the event schedule for the weekend. We still run the events very similarly because I feel it really what you have to do for an event like that.

I've heard a lot of arguments for how we should run these events, but the nature of the event makes that problematic. The truth is, many GenCon attendees that participate in these events still aren't very familiar with the format itself. When I usually run EDH at the store, we use an achievement system to reward a variety of accomplishments, but it also provides a barrier to entry. It's another document you are confronted with. It would just be too intimidating for a convention event. That's why we go with the simplest of executions: rewards for eliminating players and rewards for top finishers. These are milestones everyone understands and is familiar with.

We don't bar cooperation at the events. In large part, it's because we do want cooperation on a small scale. I want players to Head Games to give their opponent that Wrath they both need, to give each other a boost when the guy with T1 Sol Ring is threatening to run away with things. If I want it available circumstantially, I pretty much have to allow it broadly. Otherwise, where do you draw the line? If one guy is playing combo, should I be looking to DQ his 3 opponents doing everything they can to help each other prevent him from going off? Because I find it hard to codify a set of rules that stops "Mafia" types but doesn't punish this situation. Simplest execution: allow it. Yeah, some people will take advantage of it. Those people are dicks (obviously, they're acting in their best interest, but undeniably still dicks).

We also don't want to switch to heads-up events. Part of the specialness of EDH is that it is a highly social multiplayer format. We aren't going to give that up. It's just too integral to the experience for us to sacrifice that aspect.

We do what we can to solve the issues with our events. The first few Grand Melees were prone to degenerate combos, which had a tendency to bog down and leave everyone waiting for their turns. We addressed this by switching to limited. Now, you aren't going to see that degeneracy, and games play out like you'd hope they would. (Aside: WOW did we dodge the Karn bullet. All of our GenCon '11 Melees are M12, no NPH. I mean, ignores spell radius?!?! Seriously?) We try to fix similar issues with EDH, but it's a tougher nut to crack. There's just a lot more that can go wrong, and a lot of things that can go right that you don't want to prevent in the process.

As it is, we try to encourage players to watch for suspicious cooperation. Be proactive in attacking such shenanigans. Plus, by using a swiss-style system, we ensure that the high-powered, successful decks wind up matched up against similar players, and the more casual players end up with other similar minded people. It improves the chances of people ending up getting the style of experience they are seeking.

As always, we're always looking to improve our events. Please feel free to send me any suggestions. We have gotten several "collusion" complaints in the past, but we've also gotten a lot of thanks for running scheduled events for the format, and for providing a stage for the format.


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 Post subject: Re: Commander at Gen Con 2011
AgePosted: 2011-May-12 6:25 pm 

Joined: 2010-Sep-08 9:21 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Hi, Melee judge!

I did have one question. I'm very interested in playing in the M12 Grand Melee. But won't everyone deck themselves of 40 cards before eliminating a meaningful number of players? I looked in the Grand Melee rules, and didn't see any provision for reshuffling one's graveyard in, being immune to a loss by decking oneself, and so on. So how's it work? :)

_________________
Current generals:

Thraxiumundar - Sacrifice Effects
Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro - Shaman Tribal Ramp
Darien, King of Kjeldor - Go Ahead and Attack
Talrand, Sky Summoner - Nothin' but Counters, Bounce & Draw


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 Post subject: Re: Commander at Gen Con 2011
AgePosted: 2011-May-13 1:11 am 

Joined: 2008-Jul-03 12:13 am
Age: Hatchling
FinalLogic wrote:
Hi, Melee judge!

I did have one question. I'm very interested in playing in the M12 Grand Melee. But won't everyone deck themselves of 40 cards before eliminating a meaningful number of players? I looked in the Grand Melee rules, and didn't see any provision for reshuffling one's graveyard in, being immune to a loss by decking oneself, and so on. So how's it work? :)
1) That's part of the strategy inherent in building your deck. Do you want to play more than 40 to provide yourself more time?

2) I haven't actually seen it be a major concern yet. People do go through a lot more of their deck, but I've yet to see mass decking end a melee.

Now this is a bit off topic, so please, any more questions about non-EDH GenCon events, PM me. I'll still be glad to answer them. Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Commander at Gen Con 2011
AgePosted: 2011-May-13 5:19 am 

Joined: 2008-Sep-09 9:54 am
Age: Dragon
Location: New England
Thanks for the info, BSU. I really appreciate it.

So, am I reading it correctly that, essentially, the 5/0 Fact Or Fiction split, while being coercion, is technically allowable? (as are other plays like it?)

Another unrelated EDH question:

The Commander "sealed" events are causing us to scratch our heads a bit. As listed:

Quote:
"Sealed Commander format. Each player receives a Commander deck (chosen at random). Games start as soon as 4 players are available. Players win 3 packs of Magic 2012 for each opponent they eliminate.

Yes, materials are provided for this game. You do not need to bring your own.

Cost: $10"


The cost is whats causing us confusion. Usually, a sealed event gets you a cardpool that is yours to keep. Prizes are over and above. Obviously, these things are retailing for $30 a pop...how do these work? Are the decks essentially loaners for the tournament, or is this an unbelievable deal? (and a fantastic way for WotC to push the format!)

Alternately, is the price horribly wrong in the event listing? ;)


Thanks in advance if you have info on this.

--->DJ

_________________
General Damage Control - Magic: The Gathering. Elder Dragon Highlander/Commander. No Pulled Punches.

Co-Author, Dear Azami - StarCityGames.com


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 Post subject: Re: Commander at Gen Con 2011
AgePosted: 2011-May-13 10:04 am 

Joined: 2008-Jul-03 12:13 am
Age: Hatchling
The listing is horribly wrong. We've notified GenCon staff, but it's yet to be fixed. Those events are supposed to be $36.

And yes, a 5-0 split is legal. However there hopefully won't be the same motivation for that style of play. Prizes should be a lot flatter, so less incentive to game the system to get to the top. Also, everyone that sees a play like that should have a dawning moment of realization and team up against the offenders.


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 Post subject: Re: Commander at Gen Con 2011
AgePosted: 2011-May-13 7:08 pm 

Joined: 2008-Sep-09 9:54 am
Age: Dragon
Location: New England
Good to know! That makes way more sense price-wise.

As far as collusion goes, I do hear you, although the fear is that 3 out of the 4 players at the table are "teamed" and in on it. That essentially means that the "edh mafia" issue that cropped up a few years back is confirmed to still be a potential issue, and you're now confirming it's legal and accepted.

Just saying that could be a deterrent for some folks.

--->DJ

_________________
General Damage Control - Magic: The Gathering. Elder Dragon Highlander/Commander. No Pulled Punches.

Co-Author, Dear Azami - StarCityGames.com


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 Post subject: Re: Commander at Gen Con 2011
AgePosted: 2011-May-27 4:22 pm 

Joined: 2010-Sep-08 9:21 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
As an aside ... I'm going to be stopping by SCG Indy next weekend to play some EDH and pick up a singles order. If anyone here wants to play, get in touch and we'll meet up.

_________________
Current generals:

Thraxiumundar - Sacrifice Effects
Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro - Shaman Tribal Ramp
Darien, King of Kjeldor - Go Ahead and Attack
Talrand, Sky Summoner - Nothin' but Counters, Bounce & Draw


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 Post subject: Re: Commander at Gen Con 2011
AgePosted: 2011-Jun-14 6:23 am 

Joined: 2008-Sep-09 9:54 am
Age: Dragon
Location: New England
Sooo...as we get closer here, who's actually going to attend GenCon this year? I'm headed down with two good friends, and two of us are signed up for the 11pm Thursday Swiss event.

--->DJ

_________________
General Damage Control - Magic: The Gathering. Elder Dragon Highlander/Commander. No Pulled Punches.

Co-Author, Dear Azami - StarCityGames.com


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