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 Post subject: Re: Why Vendilion Clique has got to go.
AgePosted: 2011-Jun-05 8:18 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Jan-16 5:36 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Toronto, ON
_Tawnos_ wrote:
You mean ban all sources that produce blue mana. Who would have thought blue would benefit most from this format overall.

Everyone who has played blue control, ever.

The MU game was almost always a race against whatever clock your opponent had. If their clock was slow, you would win. If their clock was quick, it was more dicey. 40 life means that everyone has a slow(er) clock.

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 Post subject: Re: Why Vendilion Clique has got to go.
AgePosted: 2011-Jul-07 12:40 am 
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Joined: 2010-Jan-11 12:13 am
Age: Dragon
Location: Emerald's Away
There's nothing wrong with the card, dude.

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 Post subject: Re: Why Vendilion Clique has got to go.
AgePosted: 2011-Jul-31 10:58 pm 

Joined: 2011-Jul-19 1:14 pm
Age: Hatchling
It's true that both Thrun and Clique kill on turn ten if unmolested, but that's just if you play them without acceleration. Thrun should be casting himself on turn 3 a lot of the time. Your options, minus whatever artifacts I've forgotten, and two-mana lands:

Llanowar Elves
Fyndhorn Elves
Boreal Druid
Arbor Elf
Elvish Pioneer
Wild Growth
Joraga Treespeaker
Utopia Sprawl
Eladamri's Vineyard (Mwahahaha! Take that, draw-go player!)
Magus of the Vineyard (Oh how I miss thee, mana burn! Though not really in this matchup)
Exploration (Is this banned in two-player?)
Burgeoning
Krosan Wayfarer
Diligent Farmhand
Sakura-Tribe Scout
Skyshroud Ranger
Manabond
Llanowar Mentor (This can make an Elves turn two)

Carpet of Flowers (Though this is just against blue)

Maybe some of this artifact mana isn't Banned in France?

Wayfarer's Bauble
Chrome Mox
Lotus Petal
Mox Diamond

These are just the ones you cast on turn one to avoid everything but Force Spike and Mental Misstep. Oh and Force of Will and Foil and Daze I guess. Well, blue is ridiculous, what can you do. (But if they Daze that's fine because they're set behind as much as you would have been ahead. Your relative speed boost remains unchanged.) You can also use Concordant Crossroads to speed up your clock by a turn, which the Clique can't take advantage of unless they cast during their turn, which gives you free reign to do what you like. Might or might not be good.

Alright alright, so you take Thrun as general, take a ton of one-mana acceleration, and then the rest of your deck is devoted to beating people that aren't Clique. You don't have to build the most anti-Clique deck to win that match a lot. You cast acceleration on the first two turns, and they probably can't counter or bounce it all. So even not on the play you can probably race.

Insist and Seedtime could be good? Sideboard material. Multani's Presence, also.

You can also play cheap cards like Rancor and Bonesplitter to race faster and overwhelm the opponent's wall of counters. Not to mention your acceleration can all be as cheap as their cheapest real counters. (That is, not Force Spike.)

As for beating Clique with anyone else, I have no idea, but Thrun has no business losing this matchup. Better than Clique's matchups versus other people? I sure hope so!


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 Post subject: Re: Why Vendilion Clique has got to go.
AgePosted: 2011-Jul-31 11:33 pm 

Joined: 2010-Sep-11 12:19 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Oh god...why did someone bump this back up??....


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 Post subject: Re: Why Vendilion Clique has got to go.
AgePosted: 2011-Aug-02 12:58 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Jan-16 5:36 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Toronto, ON
Joz wrote:
Oh god...why did someone bump this back up??....

In fairness, it's still relevant.

You know, if you play 1v1.

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 Post subject: Re: Why Vendilion Clique has got to go.
AgePosted: 2012-Jan-02 1:42 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Jan-02 10:45 am
Age: Drake
I can think of a couple generals that stand a strong chance against Vendilion Clique. A Thrun deck with a lot of mana givers like Llanowar Elves and Sol Ring, as well as a lot of uncounterable/shrouded monsters like Gaea's Revenge or Dungrove Elder (And Dungrove Elder is a monster if it survives 3 turns). A Teferi deck filled with ways to keep him alive or get him out faster works just as well. Also, a deck built around Skullbriar or Jhoira that gets lucky would kick Vendilion Clique's rear. Finally, I can think of an enourmity of cards/combos that render the deck useless. Examples: Maze of Ith and its friends/Terra Eternal/Consecrate Land, Curse of Death's Hold and friends, Combust and friends, and any card that can kill Vendilion Clique that has split second.

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