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AgePosted: 2008-May-01 8:50 am 
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Joined: 2007-Sep-10 2:51 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Rittman, OH USA
ROFL So, from what I'm reading, we just ban blue generals and we're fine :P :lol: :wink:

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AgePosted: 2008-May-01 9:03 am 
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Joined: 2007-Mar-28 12:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Omaha
yawg07 wrote:
ROFL So, from what I'm reading, we just ban blue generals and we're fine :P :lol: :wink:


I can't think of a format that's better with blue mana allowed.


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AgePosted: 2008-May-01 9:11 am 
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Joined: 2007-Sep-10 2:51 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Rittman, OH USA
Oh I understand lol, I mean my Hidetsugu deck gets out of control pretty fast if there isn't a blue mage around.
Hell, last night I had turn 2 Lightning Greaves and turn 3 Seething Song, Hasted + Untargetable Hidetsugu o___0.

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AgePosted: 2008-May-02 4:22 pm 

Joined: 2007-Jun-04 6:34 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Gainsville, FL
yawg07 wrote:
ROFL So, from what I'm reading, we just ban blue generals and we're fine :P :lol: :wink:


Well, Gaddock Teeg, and Isamaru, Hound of Konda are two non- blue guys that get a significant boost in solo play.

In fact, a poster several months back posted an Isamaru list that very solid:

http://edh.truespace.ca/EDH_Forum/viewt ... ht=isamaru.

It could use some more Armageddon effects, but it has some. Point being, I think 1v1 opens up aggro choices and although neither of these guys are bannable, not only blue generals improve.

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AgePosted: 2008-May-02 5:04 pm 

Joined: 2008-Apr-05 4:28 pm
Age: Wyvern
Playing duels its ofcourse a simple fact that you cant play with 40 life, the only deck that really gets better with that much life is a Counter Deck, just because everything under 4 power will not win in time and every creature that doesnt give you card advantage doesnt make any diffrence.

So in the end you must play with 20 / or 30 (in whcih this can be a way but 20 makes it really playable).
The simple thing is that mono white with 20 life and Isamaru kills every Counter Wall deck (and counter decks suck to play and play against).
A Red Green Beatdown kills you without any chance to survive with counters.

Other way in a controll heavy world mono black aggro with Braids or something as a General becomes very strong (as every card is meant to beat controll).

If you want to win you must be fast, or you must have enough to stop the beatdown (with 40 life you must do nothing to stop the small creatures). With the General you have everytime an answer for creatures if you need it (at least a blocker).

Combo gets stronger as it cant be answered by a Gang of players and Flash Hulk and co. beat the shit out of every deck that is unprepared for it.

If the format shifts to creature heavy beatdown, Oath of Druids and other heavy anti creature aggro decks become better and ofcourse Stax is a very strong way to play as long as your opponent dont play thousand of naturalize/shatter.

With the General a controll Deck can focus on Wraths/Removal and Counters (and Moat like effects) and win on the back on the General alone, as it is the Win Option anyway.
A beatdown deck uses the General as a one drop or as a finisher, depends what you want to play (as a one drop your deck becomes faster as a finisher like Rorix or something you get a finisher if your opponent uses Wrath of God or something).

The format is a lot more aggressive than the multiplayer games and ofcourse you cant play the same decks and ofcourse the banned list must get heavy changes to get a format playable this way (who cares for Biorhytmn and the like, they are bad like hell).

With 40 life the format sucks incredible hard, you will play Heavy Controll (with counters what ever you do) or you play extrem Anti Controll with a lot of Discard / Armageddon and the like, both are really unfun and doesnt give the format a nice interaction.


So to make the format playable its a easy way to go, and a clear one too:

20 life (red cards are meant to be played with 20 life and black cards too)

As the format speeds like hell you must look which combo is too hard to answer (as the heavy Counter Wall Decks are history anyway), so things like Gifts Ungiven always go for Recoup+Tendrils+Lion's Eye Diamond and the like to finish you of right away, the General is really a side way, and because only 1 player can choose the same in a tournament not everyone can play Gaddok Teag or other heavy anti Combo Generals.

Flash+Hulk is a incredible problem because it wins turn 1 to 5, it only depends which tutor it has and if it must find answers for 1 or 2 problems in time.

Controll Decks fight a lot more creatures than they can play Counters or Disenchant effects (Orims Thunder gets superior to Disenchant if you can blast a equipment AND the creature).


If you can see why 40 life is bad you can understand why the format doenst have a problem with Teferi (Erayo could be strong even than, but is limited to mono blue and against Red Beatdown it gets burned into oblivion faster than you can spell its name).

With 40 life mono blue is superior to any other color, as the Generals are really strong in the long run and the counter wall is inbreakable with fatties and with smaller creatures you cant win fast enough before the player kills you with Vedalken Shakles and other Controll Magic.
In a tournament way 20 life is a must and even 1 life more makes it strange and kills more and more decks from the format.

Right now we use the normal Highlander Banned List from [url]magicplayer.orc[/url] and we added Rofellos as it is ofcourse a fast bomb. Karakas isnt a problem for use, and so it can bounce Generals (everyone plays Karakas, Wasteland, Ghost Quarter and other effects anyway and if you want to win with a big General you have to handle Karakas before or after, if you cant you may just suck or you win without it, and ofcourse if your General has a comes into play effect like Venser, your opponent wont bounce it, just play magic and dont blame the power of the card.)

The most "self made" rulez are not needed or make the game just feel weird, Karakas does what i does and just gets better in the format, like every Kamigawa land gets better because it can target your creature.
The General concept adds enough extra punch in deck design that it makes fun to play this format, most decks use the General as a guaranted first drop or as a top deck finisher and that makes magic a little less frustrating (which is good).


*Long Text and maybe you can read out the important things, it says in short make the format 20 life and try to look at the normal Highlander banned list to get a view on how the format plays than.

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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2008-May-03 9:58 pm 

Joined: 2008-Feb-09 7:19 am
Age: Wyvern
Frylock_Dude wrote:
Uh, we just did an EDH tournament at our school and I played Zur and it was pretty ridiculous. I'm pretty sure the only deck that could have beat it was Erayo or Teferi playing 40+ counters(which no one played).

Yeah Zur is far, far stronger in duels than in multiplayer, he's generally poor in multiplayer given the large anount of board clearance, but is probably the strongest general for duels,

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AgePosted: 2008-May-04 12:39 pm 

Joined: 2008-Apr-24 12:23 pm
Age: Wyvern
I think that there are many generals that get alot more powerful in duel games. I also believe that banning (on a large scale) is not the answer, yes blue generals are strong but mono blue control NEEDS to draw something like shackles to deal with lots of small creatures. People also pack alot of antiblue I have seen; red blasts, nature's wrath, boil, Bosiju. Erayo may be too strong I have not seen him as a general yet. Yes control is strong but 20 life means that aggro will nearly always win with something like Isamaru turn 1, or Gaddock Teeg turn 2. If people were to test life totals for EDH duels I reckon 30-35 life are much more likely to give a spread of deck types.


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AgePosted: 2008-May-04 2:52 pm 
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Joined: 2008-Apr-05 4:44 pm
Age: Drake
Beej wrote:
I think that there are many generals that get alot more powerful in duel games. I also believe that banning (on a large scale) is not the answer, yes blue generals are strong but mono blue control NEEDS to draw something like shackles to deal with lots of small creatures. People also pack alot of antiblue I have seen; red blasts, nature's wrath, boil, Bosiju. Erayo may be too strong I have not seen him as a general yet. Yes control is strong but 20 life means that aggro will nearly always win with something like Isamaru turn 1, or Gaddock Teeg turn 2. If people were to test life totals for EDH duels I reckon 30-35 life are much more likely to give a spread of deck types.
The reason Erayo's not very good is because you'll either dedicate your whole deck to comboing him out and be left with an empty/worthless grip, or you'll never be able to flip him before he gets killed over and over making him cost much more than you'll realistically be able to hit.


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AgePosted: 2008-May-05 6:47 am 

Joined: 2008-Apr-24 12:23 pm
Age: Wyvern
Would Erayo get much better if you just played huge quantity of counterspells. rather than trying to flip him turn 2
play him turn 4 with protection then hope to counter 2 of you opponents spells or something in their turn/ counter one then fact or fiction then gush type play?


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AgePosted: 2008-May-19 12:52 pm 

Joined: 2008-Jan-25 2:34 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Houston
We just finished an EDH dueling tournament this weekend. Zur was absolutely ridiculous and would have one the tournament easily if the pilot had not made a rather large play mistake that allowed the other player to take control of Zur. We all decided to ban Zur in future EDH dueling tournaments.

In case you are curious, I lost in the finals playing Scion (not a dueling deck) against Circu blue-black control (dueling deck). I really hate Capsize when I'm not the one playing it.

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 Post subject: Zur
AgePosted: 2008-May-22 8:32 am 

Joined: 2008-Feb-09 10:55 pm
Age: Wyvern
Location: Houston/Spring TX
Hate the man, not the machine. Zur is great, broken but great. Guess i`ll have to find another gen. To break.


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 Post subject: Not in favor of changin 40 life in duel
AgePosted: 2008-Oct-29 11:11 pm 

Joined: 2008-Jul-01 5:54 am
Age: Wyvern
I dont play counter, I dont play aggro, I play 5 colour scion... I can run turn two wins that cannot lose to counter... aye bose... but granted my deck isnt a duel deck its definitely a multi deck... and if I started at 20 life I would never win unless I hit that god combo.. so I would have to redesign a deck specifically to take advantage of the lower life total... such as mono red brn with a burning general that just acts like an out of hand burn spell... where the fun in that...


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AgePosted: 2008-Nov-03 3:42 am 
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Joined: 2008-Mar-24 12:14 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Oakland, CA
Azami is my general of choice for duels.

(deck)
General:
Azami, Lady of Scrolls

Land - 41
36 Island
Academy Ruins
Mutavault
Riptide Laboratory
Temple of the False God
Tolaria West

Artifacts - 15
Lotus Bloom
Sol Ring
Wayfarer's Bauble
Coldsteel Heart
Grim Monolith
Sky Diamond
Chronatog Totem
Diviner's Wand
Extraplanar Lens
Eye of Ramos
Gemstone Array
Thran Dynamo
Gauntlet of Power
Gilded Lotus
Mindslaver

Creatures - 18
Aphetto Alchemist
Sea Scryer
Stonybrook Banneret
Vedalken AEthermage
Voidmage Prodigy
Wizard Replica
Drift of Phantasms
Vigean Graftmage
Vendilion Clique
Patron Wizard
Fallowsage
Inspired Sprite
Merrow Levitator
Sower of Temptation
Venser, Shaper Savant
Scrivener
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
Ethereal Usher

Enchantments - 2
Pemmin's Aura
Mind Over Matter

Planeswalkers - 1
Tezzeret the Seeker

Other - 22
Pact of Negation
Condescend
Force Spike
High Tide
Power Sink
Spell Burst
Daze
Metamorphose
Remand
Muddle the Mixture
Fabricate
Sage's Dowsing
Forbid
Dismal Failure
Foil
Rewind
Turnabout
Cryptic Command
Force of Will
Time Spiral
Commandeer
Temporal Cascade
(/deck)

Would definitely be much better with Mana Drain and Timetwister, but I am not likely to pay that much for a couple of cards for a casual format.

I'm also thinking about adding Stifle, Trickbind, and Wipe Away.

EDIT: Just for comparison, here's my multiplayer version of Azami:
http://edh.truespace.ca/EDH_Forum/viewt ... =7762#7762


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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2008-Nov-05 8:04 pm 
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Joined: 2008-Sep-28 8:38 pm
Age: Drake
Jedit Ojanen (the one from Legends) is waayyy too broken in 1v1, and needs to be banned promptly. I just can't believe that they printed a vanilla 5/5 for 4WWU, it's just waaayyyy too good. I mean, he's the "Mightiest of the Cat Warriors" for crying out loud.

I don't think any generals are too good (besides Rofellos, obvi), no need to have a separate banned list for 1v1.

(hope you got the sarcasm, because it would be embarrassing if you didn't. i just think Jedit Ojanen is awesome because he's so bad. seriously, he'd still be a bad general if he cost 4 less...)

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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2008-Nov-29 2:34 am 

Joined: 2008-Feb-24 1:27 pm
Age: Dragon
Location: Toronto, Ontario
This was discovered only recently.

Vendilion Clique

Awesome? Awesome.

This gets flashed in TURN THREE. There is very little removal that takes care of this trio. Once resolved, this kills on turn 10, completely unblockable. The strategy here is that you flash it during your opponent's end step once you have 3 mana, and you just keep holding counterspells and instant draw spells. The only way they can stop it is to kill Vendilion Clique during the same end step that you played it. However, this is problematic because only a small subset of removals will work at this point; instants that costs 3 or less mana. In this subset, there is only a VERY small subset that is EDH-playable. Pretty much, you kill it there, or you die. Also, there is almost no blockers that appear quickly enough to block it, any even if there is, you still have the counterspell ready. To speed things up, it is also possible to play an equipment to speed the win by 1 or 2 turns. I would suggest Bonesplitter, as it only costs 1 mana, which is perfect, since you usually have no spell anyway. This creates a turn 8 kill. However, the highlight card would be O-Naginata. This pump creates a turn 7 kill. Both are Trinket Mage-able. Great cards, really.

If this deck were to be built, it would be quite simple. Simply, Vendilion Clique, 36 Islands or so, Bonesplitter, O-Naginata, and the rest being the best instant card draw, counterspell, tutors, etc.

EDIT: I'd like to add that, au natural, Vendilion Clique is faster than Isamaru. In terms of just general beatdown and gold-fishing, Vendilion Clique finishes the game on turn 10, while Isamaru finishes it on turn 12. However, Isamaru usually has some pumps to it, like Bonesplitters, Swords, Jitte's, etc. etc. This is easily solved by a bounce spell from Vendilion Clique.

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