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AgePosted: 2008-Jul-08 2:22 pm 

Joined: 2008-Feb-24 1:27 pm
Age: Dragon
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Actually, it involves a lot of counterspells. The same person who runs Doran also happens to play Null Rod. If that's what you want. However, there's also other effects you can use to take care of the Mindslaver. Various people have offered Voidmage Husher as an answer, although, I find that to be just too slow.

With regards to the UR Welder decks, I'm quite aware of what you're talking about. This is basically the EDH version of the popular Vintage deck. However, I have thought about this, and the argument is that: despite the possibility of Welder actually breaking the game on its own, you simply cannot reliably get Tinker every single time in order to break it. Also, Goblin Welder uses two targets and if either target were to become illegal the ability will be countered. This is kind of dependant on your metagame. I know that for a while, I used Scrabbling Claws. I also know that players who play black tend to play Withered Wretch. I also happen to use Triskelion. I can imagine people using the deck you've stated; using Tinker, Fabricate, Trash for Treasure and the Welder, but again, it depends on the amount of disruption. Still, the play is powerful, but I believe it's not ban-worthy.

If you're losing to Darksteel Colossus, that truly is your own fault. If that play were to happen across from me, I would probably be forced to take one hit. After which, I would have Echoing Truth'd/Capsized/Duplicant'd it. Basically, your generic bounce spells. Also, white has removal effects in Swords, Condemn. Pacism effects (Faith's Fetters is certainly playable). Again, these are standard plays and you should be prepared to face them. If you lose to these on a consistent basis, then it really is your own fault.


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AgePosted: 2008-Jul-09 3:27 pm 
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Joined: 2007-Sep-21 8:22 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Removed Sol Ring from discussion, added Tinker to discussion. I've actually started conforming all 20+ of my decks to these standards and must admit that Dust Bowl is sub-par, but when it does it's thing it's unstoppable. The same can be said for Life from the Loam so I added it to discussion. Haven't changed the basic bans for a while...I'm more concerned now with any cards that might be on the banlist that shouldn't be... Also added Zur the Enchanter to the discussion, even though with the massive amount of mana denial getting 3 different colored mana against most of my decks...in a duel...you should have won already if you can do that. And the other decks combo like crazy bunnies.


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AgePosted: 2008-Jul-09 4:38 pm 

Joined: 2008-Feb-24 1:27 pm
Age: Dragon
Location: Toronto, Ontario
I tried using Dust Bowl for a while. A lot of the time, I find that I am frustrated with the way this card works. First of all, I'm always dissatisfied whenever I see this in my opening hand. It's a terrible way to start out, because I'm forced to commit too much mana (I have a general rule about cards like this: don't commit. only women commit.), whereas, I'm always happy to see Wasteland. Also, by the time Dust Bowl becomes active, it already becomes too late, as they've already gotten their board started. Wasteland doesn't ask of this; it takes out their bounceland/dual land, right on the spot. Another thing I notice is that, I never sacrifice my Dust Bowl. I always try to "abuse" it, but it never works out. I get about 2 lands, and it just sits there.

Life from the Loam is simply too amazing. However, it is far from ban-worthy. It is just an amazing draw-engine. However, you have to commit (remember?), and if that's the case, Sylvan Library can get the job done much better. However, it's the ability of returning your cycle lands and Strip Mine/Wastelands. Many of my games have been won from opponents conceding to this.


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AgePosted: 2008-Jul-09 4:51 pm 

Joined: 2007-Dec-12 7:36 pm
Age: Dragon
warble wrote:
Removed Sol Ring from discussion, added Tinker to discussion. I've actually started conforming all 20+ of my decks to these standards and must admit that Dust Bowl is sub-par, but when it does it's thing it's unstoppable. The same can be said for Life from the Loam so I added it to discussion. Haven't changed the basic bans for a while...I'm more concerned now with any cards that might be on the banlist that shouldn't be... Also added Zur the Enchanter to the discussion, even though with the massive amount of mana denial getting 3 different colored mana against most of my decks...in a duel...you should have won already if you can do that. And the other decks combo like crazy bunnies.


Loam is much stronger than Dust Bowl. I won quite a few games off Loam +Wasteland+Stripmine back when I ran Fastbond and Exploration.

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AgePosted: 2008-Jul-11 12:47 am 
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Joined: 2007-Aug-25 2:26 am
Age: Dragon
Location: Rennes, Fr
Turn 3 LftL & Stripemine = concession.

I think that LftL will be quickly banned after the release of Eventide.

Strip mine, wasteland, retrace. Hem ... Too Much.

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AgePosted: 2008-Jul-11 7:26 am 
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Joined: 2008-May-28 3:42 pm
Age: Dragon
I don't think I've ever used Life from the Loam to recur Strip Mine/Wasteland.

There are just so many better things to do on your turn, especially with the prevalence of artifact mana and land search.

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AgePosted: 2008-Jul-11 8:29 am 

Joined: 2007-Dec-12 7:36 pm
Age: Dragon
Token wrote:
Turn 3 LftL & Stripemine = concession.

I think that LftL will be quickly banned after the release of Eventide.

Strip mine, wasteland, retrace. Hem ... Too Much.


One problem, the retrace cards on the whole suck.

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AgePosted: 2008-Jul-11 12:09 pm 
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Location: Rennes, Fr
Oh ? Really ?

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AgePosted: 2008-Jul-11 12:28 pm 
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Joined: 2008-May-28 3:42 pm
Age: Dragon
Ya really.

Sorcery speed is sad, and at 6 mana I'd rather play Arcanis or Cloudthresher or some other fatty. 6 mana and you need to start winning the game.

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AgePosted: 2008-Jul-11 1:21 pm 

Joined: 2007-Dec-12 7:36 pm
Age: Dragon
"retrace cards on the whole suck"

That is the only one I want to play and honestly if you break that card with Loam then you deserve a pat on the back.

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AgePosted: 2008-Jul-11 3:20 pm 
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Joined: 2007-Sep-21 8:22 am
Age: Elder Dragon
iceage4life wrote:
"retrace cards on the whole suck"

That is the only one I want to play and


You need s'more decks yo!

Removed Dust Bowl if you lose to it the rest of the deck was backing it up too well is what I think this strip mine wasteland talk is leading to. If anyone disagrees let me know.


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AgePosted: 2008-Jul-11 8:37 pm 

Joined: 2007-Dec-12 7:36 pm
Age: Dragon
warble wrote:
You need s'more decks yo!


And I thought that five paper EDH decks doing okay. I'm working on #'s 6&7 and guess what no retrace interest.

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Online: Garza Zol, Venser, Sisay, Ghost Council


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AgePosted: 2008-Jul-12 4:50 am 

Joined: 2008-Jul-12 1:39 am
Age: Hatchling
Location: Latvia
One thing I noticed about the answers - nothing is broken if you play UW :D


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AgePosted: 2008-Jul-12 6:19 am 
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Joined: 2008-May-28 3:42 pm
Age: Dragon
Well, every color has answers to a lot of these things, UW are just the best at it.

But Reroute, Bind, even freakin' Brown Ouphe. There's some tech against Mindslaver.

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AgePosted: 2008-Jul-14 5:24 am 
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Joined: 2007-Sep-21 8:22 am
Age: Elder Dragon
At the, I guess, "consensus opinion" I added a new category, below everything else, of Broken Mana Sources. I am completely unable to fathom this forum's inability to group mana crypt with Sol Ring so I put both of them in. Perhaps it's that you guys don't have enough experience playing against Mana Crypt in a duel environment. FYI it goes something like turn 1 Land Crypt Thirst for Knowledge GG next? Please discuss, I'm really not sure what to do with those cards.


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