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 Post subject: Looking for advice for a Yennet deck
AgePosted: 2019-Mar-29 11:10 pm 

Joined: 2017-Oct-19 12:02 am
Age: Drake
I am building a Yennet deck, this is my first try so I am avoiding some usual suspects for this deck like extra turns or infinite combos or MLD

Basically, What I want to do at first is building a better Kaalia of the vast deck.

My idea here is cheating some bombs and win with those, because Yennet is blue I have access to counterspells so I may be able to protect the strategy way better than Kaalia


My meta has a lot of creature based decks, so I am thinking adding Propaganda and a couple pillowfort cards to survive long enough

I am having troubles deciding wich cards to cut to make room for 3-4 pillowfort cards, my possible inclusions are

Aurification
Ghostly prision
Windborn muse
No mercy
War tax

Wichs cards will you swap for one or more of the ones I want in?


The deck

Lands (37)

1x Caves of Koilos
1x Drowned Catacomb
1x Exotic Orchard
1x Fetid Pools
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Halimar Depths
1x Hall of the Bandit Lord
1x High Market
1x Homeward Path
10x Island
1x Myriad Landscape
1x Mystifying Maze
4x Plains
1x Reliquary Tower
1x Sea of Clouds
4x Swamp
1x Temple of Deceit
1x Temple of Enlightenment
1x Temple of the False God
1x Terramorphic Expanse
1x Underground River
1x Watery Grave

Mass Removal (5)

1x Damnation
1x Fumigate
1x Plague Wind
1x Supreme Verdict
1x Wrath of God

Godies (4)

1x Approach of the Second Sun
1x Land Tax
1x Mind's Dilation
1x Nevermore

Big dudes (12)

1x Artisan of Kozilek
1x Bane of Bala Ged
1x Blazing Archon
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1x Emrakul, the Promised End
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
1x Pathrazer of Ulamog
1x Rune-Scarred Demon
1x Sheoldred, Whispering One
1x Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts
1x Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1x Void Winnower

Top manipulation (9)

1x Aminatou, the Fateshifter
1x Brainstorm
1x Index
1x Ponder
1x Portent
1x Preordain
1x Scroll Rack
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Soothsaying

Spot removal (7)

1x Anguished Unmaking
1x Condemn
1x Crush Contraband
1x Darksteel Mutation
1x Stonecloaker
1x Swords to Plowshares
1x Utter End

Equipment (3)

1x Lightning Greaves
1x Swiftfoot Boots
1x Whispersilk Cloak

Mana rocks (10)

1x Commander's Sphere
1x Dimir Signet
1x Gilded Lotus
1x Jeweled Amulet
1x Mana Vault
1x Mind Stone
1x Orzhov Signet
1x Sol Ring
1x Solemn Simulacrum
1x Talisman of Dominance

Counters (8)

1x Arcane Denial
1x Counterbalance
1x Counterspell
1x Dissolve
1x Negate
1x Stifle
1x Swan Song
1x Turn Aside

Card draw (4)

1x Esper Charm
1x Mulldrifter
1x Phyrexian Arena
1x Thoughtcast

_________________
Playing:
Edgar Markov The current updated decklist is here
Oloro, Ageless ascetic The current updated decklist is here
Yennett, Cryptic Sovereign The current updated decklist is here
Phelddagrif The current updated decklist is here


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for advice for a Yennet deck
AgePosted: 2019-Mar-30 4:02 pm 

Joined: 2012-Oct-24 8:05 pm
Age: Drake
No Mercy and Ghostly Prison seem like the most effective of that list. Are you trying to win more games or make everyone have more fun? If it's the latter, I'd cut Iona, Void Winnower, and Nevermore. Other than that, Thoughtcast and Stonecloaker don't strike me as particularly impressive in this deck.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for advice for a Yennet deck
AgePosted: 2019-Mar-31 12:58 am 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
NMS wrote:
Are you trying to win more games or make everyone have more fun?

No, he's one of those "I want to win every game" type of players.

_________________
"The President's job - and if someone sufficiently vain and stupid is picked he won't realize this - is not to wield power, but to draw attention away from it." -- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide tot he Galaxy Radio Transcripts predicting the future.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for advice for a Yennet deck
AgePosted: 2019-Apr-01 1:48 am 

Joined: 2017-Oct-19 12:02 am
Age: Drake
NMS wrote:
No Mercy and Ghostly Prison seem like the most effective of that list. Are you trying to win more games or make everyone have more fun? If it's the latter, I'd cut Iona, Void Winnower, and Nevermore. Other than that, Thoughtcast and Stonecloaker don't strike me as particularly impressive in this deck.

I played this deck on saturday and I cutted Iona and other oppresive stuff, i havent yet updated the list

I can't cut nevermore because some people in my playgroup plays things such as Lavinia, azorious renegade and that wuill just shut my deck.

I lost the game I played but it went well, My playgroup knew I wasnt playing Iona and they knew I wasnt playing extra turns or combos or even approach of the second sun.

I was focused by a Markov player (who was playing my own markov deck) and I struggle a lot to survive (in a 5 man table).

To be the 1st and only game I played her, it didnt went so wrong. I will be updating the list.


Sid the Chicken wrote:
NMS wrote:
Are you trying to win more games or make everyone have more fun?

No, he's one of those "I want to win every game" type of players.


I am the kind of players that wants his deck to win at least 50% of the games but be able to do important things 100% of the games, wich was the case of Yennet, she is like Kaalia but with counterspells so she is more hard to shut down

_________________
Playing:
Edgar Markov The current updated decklist is here
Oloro, Ageless ascetic The current updated decklist is here
Yennett, Cryptic Sovereign The current updated decklist is here
Phelddagrif The current updated decklist is here


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for advice for a Yennet deck
AgePosted: 2019-Apr-01 1:58 am 
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Joined: 2012-Dec-03 3:16 am
Age: Elder Dragon
alexev wrote:
Sid the Chicken wrote:
NMS wrote:
Are you trying to win more games or make everyone have more fun?

No, he's one of those "I want to win every game" type of players.


I am the kind of players that wants his deck to win at least 50% of the games but be able to do important things 100% of the games, wich was the case of Yennet, she is like Kaalia but with counterspells so she is more hard to shut down


Winning 50% of the games in a 4 or 5 man pod is pretty challenging. you have to either play against people that are far worse players or have a very different approach. If you win 1/x games then you are probably doing it right. I haven't played EDH in more than 6 months at this point, but when I played more regularly I would want to win one game a night and do something important in every game. If I won 2 out of the 4 games that night I would switch to something very casual to let someone else win next game night.

Of couse if I was playing in a tournament or against some very spiky players all bets are off.

_________________
Shabbaman wrote:
The usual answer is "the social contract", but I guess that is not what you are looking for. Try house rules.


With perfect mana, reasonable removal, disruption, and card advantage, we're back to pitchforks and torches. And it's about to get worse for those who do not enjoy the game as Richard Garfield intended, playing as few win conditions as possible and prompting concession after all hopes (and spells) are lost. - Shaheen Soorani


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for advice for a Yennet deck
AgePosted: 2019-Apr-01 3:16 am 

Joined: 2017-Oct-19 12:02 am
Age: Drake
Inkeyes22 wrote:

Winning 50% of the games in a 4 or 5 man pod is pretty challenging. you have to either play against people that are far worse players or have a very different approach. If you win 1/x games then you are probably doing it right. I haven't played EDH in more than 6 months at this point, but when I played more regularly I would want to win one game a night and do something important in every game. If I won 2 out of the 4 games that night I would switch to something very casual to let someone else win next game night.

Of couse if I was playing in a tournament or against some very spiky players all bets are off.


Yes it is chalenging, and it is more challenging when we (the playgroup) avoid as much as possible combos (fast or not), we play some combos but not in a combo focused deck

I have been able to build such decks, with a win % near 50% (and above, my Markov deck have won at T5 just beating faces), in a 3 man table is almost unbeatable, in a 4 man table he is a true pain and by turn 5-7 it is normaly a 1v1 and also in a 5 man table (he never won) he is a pain too

My Oloro pillowfort deck has that 50%+ winrate too


My very first deck was Kaalia of the vast, but because I wanted to build her mainly without combos (but with goodstuff) I was always focused by turn 0 and she got controlled every single time, I won only 2 games with her, and were games in wich I added a couple combos to her, so I won because of the combos and not because what I was trying to do (beat some faces)

Now, with Yennet, cryptic sovereign I may be able to do what Kaalia cant, I can cheat some beaters but I can also counter some spells and dig throug my library looking for answers.

I still need help with the deck, to improve it, for a 1st game it wasnt so bad, but I am not happy entirely, I feel that I need some extra cards but I cant realize wich cards are the weakest or badest to cut.

There will be a link in my signature to the updated decklist, for now it is her http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/yennet-value-for-free

_________________
Playing:
Edgar Markov The current updated decklist is here
Oloro, Ageless ascetic The current updated decklist is here
Yennett, Cryptic Sovereign The current updated decklist is here
Phelddagrif The current updated decklist is here


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for advice for a Yennet deck
AgePosted: 2019-Apr-01 10:23 pm 
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Joined: 2016-Nov-27 2:39 pm
Age: Dragon
Winning 50%+ of your games in a 4-5 man pod means your deck is far more powerful than it really needs to be — unless you want to win every game. We understand that you struggle a lot to survive and deal with 3v1 situations, but you have continuously ignored us when we point out this only occurs because you win 50%+ of games and build decks that can take on 3v1, by trying to justify you need to do so because you struggle to survive and deal with 3v1 situations.

This isn't a chicken-and-egg problem, this situation is not circular: the root cause is your decks are super powerful, far more than they need to be, because you want to win this much. (People who don't want to win this much simply don't try to build decks that do because they have no need of that.)

Did you know you can play removal instead of Nevermore? And do things like build to not need to cast spells for free?

_________________
Decks: Chaos colored dragons, Mathas, the Instigator (politics and mayhem).
Beloved precons: Atraxa, Praetors' Voice; Saskia the Unyielding; Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for advice for a Yennet deck
AgePosted: 2019-Apr-01 11:59 pm 

Joined: 2017-Oct-19 12:02 am
Age: Drake
spacemonaut wrote:
Winning 50%+ of your games in a 4-5 man pod means your deck is far more powerful than it really needs to be — unless you want to win every game. We understand that you struggle a lot to survive and deal with 3v1 situations, but you have continuously ignored us when we point out this only occurs because you win 50%+ of games and build decks that can take on 3v1, by trying to justify you need to do so because you struggle to survive and deal with 3v1 situations.

This isn't a chicken-and-egg problem, this situation is not circular: the root cause is your decks are super powerful, far more than they need to be, because you want to win this much. (People who don't want to win this much simply don't try to build decks that do because they have no need of that.)



I have not ignore any of your oppinions, whatever I follow them or not I value a lot every single word any forum member has gave on this and every other post.

I am building Yennett because I buried Kaalia for good, she is sitting in one of my folders along all her cards, but it had always sadens me the fact that I actually wasnt ever been able to play and enjoy a single multiplayer game with her.

I think Yennett can be the best Kaalia (because of blue) so I want to give her a try, my current version have done "fair" in the very first game, meaning that I actually could do some relevant stuff in the game and put some threat at least for one turn, while she was fun at this first game, I was never ahead on the game


spacemonaut wrote:

Did you know you can play removal instead of Nevermore? And do things like build to not need to cast spells for free?


Cheating Ulamog, the infinite gyre at turn 5-6 is any different than casting him at turn 5-6 with mana rocks?

I use nevermore(and darksteel mutation) because against certain commanders I need to get "permanent solutions" to the problems, and a removal spell will only give a turn, I dont want aGadock teeg on the table orLavinia, azorius renegade

_________________
Playing:
Edgar Markov The current updated decklist is here
Oloro, Ageless ascetic The current updated decklist is here
Yennett, Cryptic Sovereign The current updated decklist is here
Phelddagrif The current updated decklist is here


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for advice for a Yennet deck
AgePosted: 2019-Apr-02 12:12 am 
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Joined: 2016-Nov-27 2:39 pm
Age: Dragon
alexev wrote:
spacemonaut wrote:
Winning 50%+ of your games in a 4-5 man pod means your deck is far more powerful than it really needs to be — unless you want to win every game. We understand that you struggle a lot to survive and deal with 3v1 situations, but you have continuously ignored us when we point out this only occurs because you win 50%+ of games and build decks that can take on 3v1, by trying to justify you need to do so because you struggle to survive and deal with 3v1 situations.

This isn't a chicken-and-egg problem, this situation is not circular: the root cause is your decks are super powerful, far more than they need to be, because you want to win this much. (People who don't want to win this much simply don't try to build decks that do because they have no need of that.)



I have not ignore any of your oppinions, whatever I follow them or not I value a lot every single word any forum member has gave on this and every other post.

I am building Yennett because I buried Kaalia for good, she is sitting in one of my folders along all her cards, but it had always sadens me the fact that I actually wasnt ever been able to play and enjoy a single multiplayer game with her.

I think Yennett can be the best Kaalia (because of blue) so I want to give her a try, my current version have done "fair" in the very first game, meaning that I actually could do some relevant stuff in the game and put some threat at least for one turn, while she was fun at this first game, I was never ahead on the game


It has certainly frequently felt like they're falling on deaf ears. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you're trying to listen. However, your actions suggest you still want super-powerful super-winningest decks that may win even in a 3v1 — because those are the decks you've been building.


alexev wrote:
spacemonaut wrote:
Did you know you can play removal instead of Nevermore? And do things like build to not need to cast spells for free?


Cheating Ulamog, the infinite gyre at turn 5-6 is any different than casting him at turn 5-6 with mana rocks?

I use nevermore(and darksteel mutation) because against certain commanders I need to get "permanent solutions" to the problems, and a removal spell will only give a turn, I dont want aGadock teeg on the table orLavinia, azorius renegade


In both of these cases:

- Play removal on Lavinia on the turns you want to do this.
- Play a deck that isn't so powerful that people feel the need to play Lavinia and Gaddock to hard counter you and stand a chance.
- Specifically, consider not playing a deck that cheats out Ulamog on turns 5-6.

The root of the problem is you're playing super powerful decks. This requires people to play lockout strategies against you, which you answer by playing your own lockout strategies, which in turn make your decks more powerful, exacerbating the cycle.

The solution to the cycle is to break it at its root: don't play super powerful decks that your opponents can only contain by playing hard lockout against you. Play less-powerful decks with a lower win percentage that don't attract 3v1 and which can be contained through more ordinary gameplay.

You are the one winning 50%+ of the time including against 3v1s. This means you are the one setting the high bar for power levels and pushing power creep upon your group, because everyone else has far less powerful decks. This also means you're in a position to lower the high bar.

_________________
Decks: Chaos colored dragons, Mathas, the Instigator (politics and mayhem).
Beloved precons: Atraxa, Praetors' Voice; Saskia the Unyielding; Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for advice for a Yennet deck
AgePosted: 2019-Apr-02 11:53 pm 

Joined: 2017-Oct-19 12:02 am
Age: Drake
spacemonaut wrote:
In both of these cases:

- Play removal on Lavinia on the turns you want to do this.
- Play a deck that isn't so powerful that people feel the need to play Lavinia and Gaddock to hard counter you and stand a chance.
- Specifically, consider not playing a deck that cheats out Ulamog on turns 5-6.

You are the one winning 50%+ of the time including against 3v1s. This means you are the one setting the high bar for power levels and pushing power creep upon your group, because everyone else has far less powerful decks. This also means you're in a position to lower the high bar.


No one is playing Lavinia because of my deck, the player that plays her has this strategy

1. Boardwipe (while he has lot of mana rocks)
2. Lavinia, azorius renegade
3. armageddon
4. Profit

So, he is looking to lock us out, he does not play lavinia because of my deck.

Sometimes I have the feeling that many people thinks my playgroup is playing glory seeker type of cards and I am playing bombs, wich is not correct, all my friends have their decks build with goodstuff, they playUlamog, the ceasless hunger, cyclonic rift, sword of the meek + thopter foundry, and all the normal godstuff their commanders usualy have.

spacemonaut wrote:

You are the one winning 50%+ of the time including against 3v1s. This means you are the one setting the high bar for power levels and pushing power creep upon your group, because everyone else has far less powerful decks. This also means you're in a position to lower the high bar.


I am the one trying to build decks with that goal, so far I have achieved 2 of them

But, while I wish to have that 50%, the most importat part of my deckbuilding is not focusing at winning, it is focusing to "do what my deck is built to do"

Example:

My (now dead) Kaalia deck has this plan:

1. Casting Kaalia with haste at turn 4-6
2. Attacking and droping a bomb at turn 4-6
3. Beating faces
4. Profit

That was the plan, but rarely I was able to stick Kaalia at the table, I normally attacked twice or trice each game, being completely meaningless at the game, being able to resolve only mana rocks and if for some reason I survive late game, hardcasting all my dudes

My very first Yennet build is bad, but the only game I played her, she was able to do some damage, she developed the plan, she was disrupted but not as bad as Kaalia always was, so I think I am going in the right direction

_________________
Playing:
Edgar Markov The current updated decklist is here
Oloro, Ageless ascetic The current updated decklist is here
Yennett, Cryptic Sovereign The current updated decklist is here
Phelddagrif The current updated decklist is here


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for advice for a Yennet deck
AgePosted: 2019-Apr-18 10:50 am 

Joined: 2017-Oct-19 12:02 am
Age: Drake
I have modified my list and play-tested it.

1st a note about my playgroup, we are not cEDH players, we don't like fast combo decks but we allow combos or instant wincons.

We play powerful decks, powerful cards and and synergies, we play Narset, Breya, Atraxa, Oloro, Alesha and a long etcetera

The deck as I have it now is very fun to play

PROS.

1. Card selection is a powerful effect
2. We can play draw go most of the time and have some answers
3. We can cheat powerful stuff and have the mana open to protect them

CONS.

1. While top manipulation is awesome and allows us to set up our next turns, this makes the deck as versatile as difficult to play we need to think several turns in advance and take our time to think.

2. Yennet is weak early game, we rely heavily on our mass removal, 6 of wich are 5cmc or less

3. We need time to build our game than other people, cheating an Ulamog, the infinite gyre is absolute worthless unless we can protect him at least a turn cycle.

All this said now lets talk about some cards

1. Ghostly prison : early game is nuts, late is worthless, so maybe I will swap it for another counterspell or a better replacement such as No mercyor Aurification that can actually prevent attacks

2. Future sight: is nuts, just NUTS in this deck, until you try it you wont realize its full value

3. Time warp and Temporal mastery: while I don't play too many extra turn effects, I think these two are just enough, time warp cost only 5 so we can resolve it after cheating a huge bomb to have an extra turn, and we have many ways to set up the miracle of TM

Conclusions,

The deck as is now, is fun to play, it is difficult for me to make more evaluations about cards to cut, replace, etc because I yet need to play more games, but so far it is really fun and challenging

_________________
Playing:
Edgar Markov The current updated decklist is here
Oloro, Ageless ascetic The current updated decklist is here
Yennett, Cryptic Sovereign The current updated decklist is here
Phelddagrif The current updated decklist is here


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