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 Post subject: "Off-color" Onslaught fetch lands
AgePosted: 2006-May-31 6:37 pm 

Joined: 2006-May-31 5:42 am
Age: Hatchling
Location: Charlton, MA
If my general is Green/White, can I play an Onslaught fetch land like Wooded Foothills, which mentions the word "Mountain" but doesn't have a red mana symbol on it?


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 Post subject: Re: "Off-color" Onslaught fetch lands
AgePosted: 2006-Jun-01 5:53 am 

Joined: 2006-May-24 9:26 am
Age: Wyvern
Location: Owings, Maryland
PeterCooperJr wrote:
If my general is Green/White, can I play an Onslaught fetch land like Wooded Foothills, which mentions the word "Mountain" but doesn't have a red mana symbol on it?


Yes. Land has no color, and therefore you can use any land that you wish. Remember, if it can produce colored mana, then it will either produce colored mana if that color is the same as one of your General's. If it is a different color, then it produces colorless instead.

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AgePosted: 2006-Jun-01 10:02 am 
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In fact, if you've got the money to burn... you can play totally off-colour fetchlands in your deck. Technically it's not the fact that they have no colour which makes them legal.. it's the that they contain no off-colour mana symbols.. so for example, you can't play partially off-colour guild Karoos, but...

At the risk of giving away some of my favorite tech, my mono blue deck runs all five fetchlands, as well as a full set of Blue-X dual lands (remember, they don't have a mana symbol on them.. their entire oracle text is "Land - Mountain Island"). The fetches are handy for getting free shuffles for my top/library manipulation... and the dual lands power up my Collective Restraint :)

G

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AgePosted: 2006-Jun-01 11:01 am 

Joined: 2006-May-29 8:44 pm
Age: Hatchling
I don't think that you can actually use duals if they don't produce your general's colours. Basic lands do have text, even if they seem not have any. A mountain has tap: add (R) to your mana pool. A land which has basic land types will have the text which is associated with that basic land type, so a savannah will have the following text: tap: add (W) to your mana pool, tap: add(G) to your mana pool. This is all explained in CR 212.6d.

Georges


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AgePosted: 2006-Jun-01 11:30 am 
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<edit>Hrm.. aparently I was wrong.. it looks like 212.6d does grant that ability to said lands.. as humility can remove it. Pity. Guess that doesn't work anymore... no partial off-colour duals or shocklands in EDH decks :) Oh well.

G

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AgePosted: 2006-Jun-02 6:11 am 

Joined: 2006-May-24 9:26 am
Age: Wyvern
Location: Owings, Maryland
Georges wrote:
I don't think that you can actually use duals if they don't produce your general's colours.


That would be correct. If you have a Blue/Black General, then the cards in your deck have to have either a Blue or Black mana symbol somewhere on them. If they have some other mana symbol on them... Then it doesn't work. Anything with a basic land subtype inherently has that mana symbol in the card's abilities... So, technically, you can't use off color duals.

But, the fetchlands don't have any mana symbol on them. They just have the ability to fetch a land of a specific type. So, while you may be limited on the mana producing land itself; you're not on the fetchland. So, even if you can only use Underground Seas and Watery Graves in the deck, you could still include all those fetchlands that can either fetch Islands or Swamps (even if they could also fetch Plains, Mountains or Forests). At least with the way the rule is currently written.

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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2006-Aug-01 8:16 pm 

Joined: 2006-Aug-01 8:14 pm
Age: Wyvern
Quote:
If you have a Blue/Black General, then the cards in your deck have to have either a Blue or Black mana symbol somewhere on them


By that reasoning your not alowed to run most artifacts, or fetch lands at all.

I'm sure you meant to say they can contain no other mana symbols


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AgePosted: 2006-Aug-02 4:19 am 

Joined: 2006-May-24 9:26 am
Age: Wyvern
Location: Owings, Maryland
LovesTha wrote:
By that reasoning your not alowed to run most artifacts, or fetch lands at all.

I'm sure you meant to say they can contain no other mana symbols


Yes, that is what I was getting at. Sorry for being unclear.

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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2007-Aug-05 12:12 pm 

Joined: 2007-Jul-27 8:31 am
Age: Hatchling
What is the ruling on the Bringer of the X Dawn creatures in a Mono-color or non-prismatic deck? What about creatures with off color activations? They seem strictly inferior if they are unable to use their ability, because they are costed more for it. It has come up as a big discussion for our group, but we are relatively new to the format and are trying to get everything setup correctly.


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AgePosted: 2007-Aug-05 1:24 pm 
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Jediga wrote:
What is the ruling on the Bringer of the X Dawn creatures in a Mono-color or non-prismatic deck? What about creatures with off color activations?


Cards with non-general mana symbols anywhere on them are banned in EDH decks. So a UB deck can't play either a Nightscape Battlemage or a Nightscape Master/apprentice, for example. The cardpool for EDH is plenty large, and there are many cards which are playable in EDH which aren't playable in other formats; the fact that many cards aren't useable in a given deck (see: Hybrid mana cards, or offcolour mana artifacts) is an acceptable loss.

Some groups allow Bringers as an explicit exception to this rule, ignoring the alternate cost ability or errataing them to say "You may pay one mana of each colour" instead of "WUBRG", which is more to the point.

As for whether they're worth the cost, that's left as an exercise for the reader... the Black one is famously good though. :P

G

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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2007-Aug-06 10:24 pm 

Joined: 2007-Jun-07 1:11 pm
Age: Drake
While we're on the subject, can someone play a Charmed Pendant in a deck without blue or black? It's man symbols are used only as an example in the reminder text.

I'd imagine yes, but I'm just making sure.

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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2007-Aug-07 9:40 am 
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Chron wrote:
While we're on the subject, can someone play a Charmed Pendant in a deck without blue or black? It's man symbols are used only as an example in the reminder text.


Yeah, that's fine :)

G

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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2007-Aug-09 5:13 am 
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Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Tampa, FL, USA
Genomancer wrote:
Chron wrote:
While we're on the subject, can someone play a Charmed Pendant in a deck without blue or black? It's man symbols are used only as an example in the reminder text.


Yeah, that's fine :)

G


While a rules lawyer could argue that even the reminder text mana symbols make it unplayable in other decks, I would be forced to shoot that rules lawyer.

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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2007-Aug-09 6:40 am 
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Joined: 2006-Jul-10 6:51 pm
Age: Wyvern
Location: The Sentry Box
Here's a slightly tougher one than the pendant:

Jungle Lion

Can I play him in mono-green as his blue activated ability is paid by my opponent not myself?

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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2007-Aug-09 8:18 am 
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Location: Calgary, AB
Tyorl_Nightwind wrote:
Jungle Lion


I believe this is refering to Mtenda Lion... which I admit would seem flavourful on account of it being someone else's cost to pay. Officially though, it's not allowed in a non-blue deck.

There are a number of cards that are fun/flavourful, but would require too many little rules to accommodate; if it's of particular value to you, perhaps your local group would allow it as a house rule.

Gavin

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