Login | Register


All times are UTC - 7 hours


It is currently 2019-Jul-16 12:31 pm




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Any leeway in allowing generals of certain colors?
AgePosted: 2006-May-25 8:43 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2006-May-23 4:14 pm
Age: Drake
I've built several EDH decks in the year or so that I've been involved in this format, and by and large most of the deck ideas I've wanted to do have been possible within the rules.

However, there are certain color combinations that I would love to try out but wouldn't be feasable under the current EDH rules, unless you ran it as a 5 color deck. Gold cards such as Guided Passage, Fungal Shambler, and Lightning Angel are unplayable, and Sanctuaries are suboptimal because in most cases there doesn't exist a general that is all three colors.

I know that Sheldon has made exceptions for the artifact legends Bosh and Memnarch being 'colored' legends, and that Duncan has on some occasions used Genju of the Realm as a 'general'. I propose that perhaps some other creatures be given honorary 'general' status. For instance, the Nephlim certainly seem in-flavor as generals, and open up many new possibilities for deck construction.

Thoughts?

Victor


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2006-May-25 10:05 am 
EDH Rules Committee
User avatar

Joined: 2006-May-09 4:17 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Calgary, AB
For the record, the exceptions for Bosh and Memnarch aren't official... they're just something that some casual groups use. There's a thread discussing what the official rules should be for that kind of general. For now, if you want to play a wacky general in your local playgroup, just convince them to allow it. (For the record, allowing Genju of the Realm as a general is a bad idea.. it's huge, cheap, easily kills people and is too hard to kill).


The desire to make 'wedge' decks (Colour+2 opposing colours) has come up a lot, and has been discussed in various groups several times. One thing which has been discussed is the possibility of allowing "Mercenary" decks (my term; if someone else can come up with a better one feel free to propose it) which have no general but are allowed to play any colour combination. Alternately, rules for using non-legendary generals have been discussed.

Arguments in favour include:
    1. It prevents people from reserving five-colour generals like the legendary Slivers which they can't (or can barely) play, taking away those generals from others who would like to actually play a sliver deck.

    2. Reserving a general which you can't play (or no general at all) isn't much fun, and a lot of people would like to be able to play those colour combinations.


Good counter arguments include the fact that generals are the lynchpin of EDH flavour, that requring legendary creatures make things much more intersting, or that the limited number of legendary creatures in each colour SHOULD restrict the number of players who can play a given colour combination.

I don't know how many people actually hold to that last arguement, so let's ignore it for now.. if you feel that the availability of a colour combination should be restricted to a small number of people, please speak up so we can discuss the issue :)


IMO: Mercenary decks which don't play any general at all should automatically be allowed, as it's strictly better for the game than requiring people to poach one of the 5 colour generals. The fact that there are a limited number of 5 colour generals shouldn't restrict people from playing the many 4-colour/wedge colour combinations.

The question to me is whether there should be some other advantage granted to such decks. If any, this advantage should be minimal (substantially less powerful than the advantages granted to generals).. but sufficient to encourage people to play without a general, instead of a general they "might maybe be able to play if I draw my one City of Brass and my one Forgotten Paradise".

Darren in our group suggested that it might work to allow non-legendary generals (Nephilim, Lightning Angel, Volvers?), but that these either aren't recurrable (as regular generals are) or don't deal "general damage", or both. Personally I'd be fine with the former.. you can use a non-legendary 'one shot' general.. sucks compared to a Legendary one, but does allow interesting colour combinations.

Any comments?

G

Ps: Bizzare generals like Krark's thumb or Myr Matrix are probably best left to the realm of local playgroups. My UR Kark EDH deck is fun.. but I'm sure there's at least one player in ever group who would complain :)


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2006-May-25 11:49 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2006-May-21 9:45 am
Age: Drake
Well, if you start allowing for variations like "non-legendary" generals you open the flood gates to almost anything. While I understand the format is casual, it's the fact that there's rules that make any game interesting. IMO, the general should be a "Legendary Creature", period. No Krark's Thumb, no Tolarian Academy's, no volvers, etc. At the same time, a generals color should include all of the mana symbols on the card and not just in the mana cost.

If a person wants to reserve a five-color sliver legend, for example, let them. I like the idea of Genju of the Realms even though it's not fully a creature, but it can become one, unlike other Legendary permanents that cannot.

What's the point of playing a format that will just change the deck building guidelines at a moment's notice?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2006-May-25 3:42 pm 

Joined: 2006-May-25 3:28 pm
Age: Hatchling
Location: Denver, CO
So, what about allowing custom generals, with a few reasonable guidelines?

Make them all cost 6 (3XYZ), and give them a basic activated ability for those colors - reasonable, playable, even "good" - but not "broken".

For example, for W/B/G, you could get:
"General Whigrebla" (OK, you come up with a better name!)
3WBG
3/3
W: ~this~ gains Vigilance until EOT
B: regenerate
G: ~this~ gains Trample until EOT

Start with a 6/6 for 6; for each ability, knock off a point of P/T. Might be a workable formula - and after all, you have to convince your play group to accept it, so you can't make it insane.

_________________
d:^D


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2006-May-25 6:47 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2006-May-09 8:05 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Calgary, AB, CA
matthew wrote:
Well, if you start allowing for variations like "non-legendary" generals you open the flood gates to almost anything. While I understand the format is casual, it's the fact that there's rules that make any game interesting. IMO, the general should be a "Legendary Creature", period. No Krark's Thumb, no Tolarian Academy's, no volvers, etc. At the same time, a generals color should include all of the mana symbols on the card and not just in the mana cost.

If a person wants to reserve a five-color sliver legend, for example, let them. I like the idea of Genju of the Realms even though it's not fully a creature, but it can become one, unlike other Legendary permanents that cannot.

What's the point of playing a format that will just change the deck building guidelines at a moment's notice?


Excellent post, and good words for thought.

Sure, we should look at changes if it would mean making the game fairer- or more fun- or address existing holes and problems- but when it stops being Elder Dragon Highlander, what are we doing? People should be casting Legendary creatures to lead the rest of their deck. It's not the "I have a card I can cast every game!" format. Yes, some color combinations aren't supported now. Life goes on.

There is still the concern that if a player wants this color combination, they need to take a 5-color Legend like Sliver Queen, which might mean taking it from someone who actually wanted to make use of it. It's a problem, yes. Perhaps it's a matter best left to the league organizer than the rules- there's more than one 5-color Legend, after all.

_________________
Level 2 Judge, Calgary, AB.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2007-Mar-29 6:43 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2007-Mar-29 6:40 am
Age: Egg
Location: Burlington, NC, USA
Happily, the new Dragon Legends from Planar Chaos solve this problem nicely. Lightning Angel, meet your new general: Numot.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 7 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 35 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: