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 Post subject: Thieves' Auction: ban in multiplayer?
AgePosted: 2009-Mar-19 5:23 pm 

Joined: 2009-Mar-19 5:01 pm
Age: Wyvern
I was watching a game of EDH where Thieves' Auction was played, and I found myself wondering why the card is not banned, at least in multiplayer. Not because it's broken, because it isn't, but because it takes far too long to resolve. In two- or three-player it's not too bad, but when you have five or six players there can be upwards of 100 permanents in play by the time TA is cast. There's no way it will take less than five minutes to resolve that one spell however fast you pick. Then you've got to spend at least as much time at the end of the game sorting them all back to their original owners.

I think the fun factor of the card is outweighed by the problems caused by actually playing it. Thoughts?


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AgePosted: 2009-Mar-19 7:07 pm 

Joined: 2008-Oct-14 9:54 pm
Age: Dragon
depends like you said on the size of the game... almost every time i've seen it resolve someone has flipped over a DoA, Obliterate or J'hops aftr they have picked all the enchantments Darksteel ingots and enought land to cast said spell..

also i think the way in which you draft the board is important.. we normally just stack all the lands in order (i.e. Nonbasics forrests islands...) and all the non-lands in a different pile and pass them round the table.. I found it only slowed down when people have got what they wanted and are looking for the right lands which is not a problem any more...

also Xan moved out of town which has decreased the amount of TA players in our group by 50%


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AgePosted: 2009-Mar-19 8:43 pm 
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It's not that slow if people would learn to think about what to take while other people are taking their turns to pick their card, rather than thinking only when it's their turn to pick. I get really sick of multiple people, on several of their turns, survey the auction and take a long while on what to take (obviously they did not pay much attention to what cards other people took). Sure, at the beginning it takes a bit of time since the first couple of picks may be pretty quick, but once the auction gets going, players should kno that they're going after. Also, I don't think it's that hard to come up with backup plans/options.

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AgePosted: 2009-Mar-20 11:09 am 

Joined: 2009-Mar-19 5:01 pm
Age: Wyvern
Frosnuts wrote:
also i think the way in which you draft the board is important.. we normally just stack all the lands in order (i.e. Nonbasics forrests islands...) and all the non-lands in a different pile and pass them round the table.. I


Which stops working the moment there's multiple permanents with counters on. TA doesn't remove anything from the game or bring anything into play, remember.

If there's a creature being kept alive only by a Glorious Anthem or similar, and you take that creature but not the Anthem, it will die. Sure, it adds to the strategy of the card, but it's even more information to track.


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AgePosted: 2009-Mar-21 2:51 am 

Joined: 2008-Nov-25 3:51 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Toronto, ON
meh, there are far better (worse) cards to ban than thieves auction that can take away a lot more from the game. in my opinion, slow play shouldn't be a factor in banning a card because it's up to the players to simply play faster. if there's a big dilemma about which permanent to take just take a land or a powerful annoying permanent and keep the game moving. you don't have to work out every angle for every permanent you take especially in a 5-6 player game. most of the time you'll just grab a vigor, rafiq or something useful and move on.

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AgePosted: 2009-Mar-21 8:08 am 
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On that basis, you'd have to ban a lot of fun cards like Free-For-All. Man, that card's a blast. Or you'd have to ban Sharahazaard. But honestly, EDH isn't really speed magic. It sets up complicated slow to resolve things that couldn't happen under normal circumstances. Any 4 player EDH game goes on longer than an hour, just how it is. We're all used to that. But when you play EDH for 8 hours, the time flies by.

On that note, anyone who wants to hire me to work playing EDH for 8 hrs/day please send me a PM.


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AgePosted: 2009-Mar-21 8:09 am 

Joined: 2009-Mar-19 5:01 pm
Age: Wyvern
Jukren54 wrote:
in my opinion, slow play shouldn't be a factor in banning a card because it's up to the players to simply play faster.


You've completely misunderstood my contention. I'm not just talking about how long it takes to choose your pick. I'm talking about the time required to physically pick up the cards. You can't wave a "play faster" wand and fix it.


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AgePosted: 2009-Mar-21 8:25 pm 

Joined: 2006-Jul-14 12:02 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Wherever I may roam
Resolution of Thieves Auction can take a while, but it's a fully interactive part of the game with every player participating. It leads to entertaining game states, and is basically exactly the sort of thing that makes for a satisfying EDH game. Banning that sort of thing...simply out of the question. Would you rather spend 5 mins of the game watching somebody blunder their way through the steps of their combo deck?


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AgePosted: 2009-Mar-21 8:28 pm 
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Thieves Auction creates the kind of unusualness that leads to memorable situations in EDH games. I definitely believe that unusual is good and healthy for the format.

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AgePosted: 2009-Mar-31 11:13 pm 

Joined: 2009-Feb-11 9:58 am
Age: Drake
Just so you know, Jedit - check the rulings on TA again. It does remove them from the game and then return them to play, so leaves-play and comes-into-play effects do trigger, and counters aren't relevant.

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AgePosted: 2009-Mar-31 11:36 pm 

Joined: 2006-Jul-14 12:02 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Wherever I may roam
FponkDarnoc wrote:
Just so you know, Jedit - check the rulings on TA again. It does remove them from the game and then return them to play, so leaves-play and comes-into-play effects do trigger, and counters aren't relevant.


I used to play it in a deck witha fair number of tokens, and back then the tokens wouldn't go away during a spell (that changed with Momentary Blink), so maybe he's got some flashback...


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AgePosted: 2009-Apr-01 9:08 pm 
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If a card needs to be discussed for taking too long to resolve, then you'd have to address cards like Sensei's Divining Top and every fetch land. Those cards take forever when everyone plays them and they aren't moving, so neither should Thieves Auction.


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AgePosted: 2009-Apr-01 10:02 pm 

Joined: 2008-Nov-25 3:51 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Toronto, ON
trevor wrote:
If a card needs to be discussed for taking too long to resolve, then you'd have to address cards like Sensei's Divining Top and every fetch land. Those cards take forever when everyone plays them and they aren't moving, so neither should Thieves Auction.


well said.

I also agree with Sheldon. If anything Top is worse because there is no interaction between players. As long as there is something happening to promote "fun" I'm happy with that. It also makes the game interesting as well on a level that you don't see too often in constructed magic.

_________________
1] Horde of Notions (Blink)
2] Teneb, The Harvester (Rock)
3] Isperia the Inscrutable (U/W Control)
4] Mayael the Anima (Fatties FTW!)
5] Omnath, Locus of Mana (Big Green Men)
6] Oros, The Avenger (Rock Burn)
7] Savra, Queen of the Golgari (Token Snack)
8] Rafiq of the Many (One Man, Alone)
9] Reaper King (Taste the EPIC!)
10] Uril, the Miststalker (Dark Rafiq)


I THINK in metaphors


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AgePosted: 2009-Apr-02 11:15 am 

Joined: 2009-Mar-19 5:01 pm
Age: Wyvern
trevor wrote:
If a card needs to be discussed for taking too long to resolve, then you'd have to address cards like Sensei's Divining Top and every fetch land. Those cards take forever when everyone plays them and they aren't moving, so neither should Thieves Auction.


The difference being that fetch lands and Spinny Wheel almost always get used when someone else is playing - the only time they stop the game is if you're digging for a land you want to play right now. Thieves' Auction can't help but stop the game dead for everyone.


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AgePosted: 2009-Apr-02 2:39 pm 
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Joined: 2008-Apr-09 1:32 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Not really. It brings everyone back onto the same page in the game, and a nice change of pace happens.

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