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 Post subject: Time Stretch Under Probation
AgePosted: 2009-Mar-22 5:15 pm 
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Joined: 2008-May-04 6:05 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Wisconsin
Quote:
Time Stretch
The ability to take multiple turns is a significant advantage in multiplayer games. Time Stretch resolving once isn't so bad, but the second extra turn gives the player a great deal more opportunity for recursion, which we think is problematic. The primary thing saving Time Stretch from the banned list right now is that it costs 10 mana. We'll revisit next time.


I know I mentioned this on a different topic, but it deserves its own topic. Currently people are having heated debates on Rofellos, Metalworker, etc, etc, but what struck me as the most disappointing revision to the banned list was how Time Stretch was under probation.

Time Stretch is the perfect example of an EDH gem. It is a high costed and powered card. It is simple in terms of ruling and is a 1$ card. If it gets recurred and it wins someone the game, so be it. That card was made for this format.
To quote Aleph:
Quote:
Time Stretch IS EDH!

I would be extremely saddened if the EDH Organizers would even consider this card to be ban worthy, such that it needed to be watched. I don't know if others agree with this hence the reason for this topic. Please state your opinion in PROFESSIONAL matter.


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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2009-Mar-22 7:57 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Mar-18 9:17 am
Age: Drake
Location: Luna
I'm sure there's been problems with it and there's a case to be made.

That being said, idk what that case is, perhaps someone could speak to that.

But Time Stretch is indeed only playable in a format like EDH.

If you wanna ban something that sets of infinate turns for yourself, you'd wanna ban the Time Walk with buyback. That's much easier to turn into infinate turns.


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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2009-Mar-23 5:20 am 

Joined: 2009-Jan-29 8:32 am
Age: Drake
Location: Belgium
At 12 mana you have Planar Portal + Beacon of Tomorrows.


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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2009-Mar-23 6:24 am 

Joined: 2008-Aug-02 10:17 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Wouter wrote:
At 12 mana you have Planar Portal + Beacon of Tomorrows.

thats 20 mana:
6 to cast the portal
6 to activate
8 to cast the beacon




Up until the latest banning (Tinker?) we've followed the B&R list to the letter. Time Stretch has never caused a problem for us.

I do understand the cons - barring null broch only red and blue are able to do something about it - but the fact remains that TS alone doesnt win you the game, and it doesnt combo into a win with any one card.

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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2009-Mar-23 8:39 pm 

Joined: 2008-Oct-14 9:54 pm
Age: Dragon
Imps mischief?


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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2009-Mar-23 11:16 pm 
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Joined: 2008-Nov-21 6:32 am
Age: Drake
Location: Berlin, Germany
Wouter wrote:

Up until the latest banning (Tinker?) we've followed the B&R list to the letter. Time Stretch has never caused a problem for us.


If Time Stretch causes problems in your regular playgroup, ban it.

The thing is, the more diverse locally refined banned lists are, the more problematic is playing the game with different people. For example, the first thing I did after checking into my hotel for GP: Hanover earlier this month was grabbing my EDH-decks and playing with random guys from all over Europe at the lobby. This is where the 'official' bannings step in, and in my opinion that list should be as short as possible.

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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2009-Mar-24 11:52 am 
EDH Rules Committee
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Joined: 2006-May-09 4:17 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Calgary, AB
Blitzbold speaks wisdom. :)

Some people love time stretch (me!)... some people despise it. Some very smart people have made some good arguments for it to go: namely the "kokusho factor"... it comes out, games usually revolve around it till they end. That said, it costs 10, is a sorcery, etc... so, we wait.

Making the watch list more public is an attempt to gather opinions and information (they're not the same, turns out)... but doesn't mean things on the list are "probably" going to go. Just "maybe, so be warned and we'd like to hear what you have to say".

G


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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2009-Mar-25 4:05 pm 

Joined: 2008-Mar-19 10:00 pm
Age: Drake
I don't see it as a problem. Normal "Extra Turn" cards aren't a problem, and this simply gives them another turn. Honestly, there are alot of games where I would rather give my oppoenent an extra turn then stare down a Sundering Titan, or Mindslaver lock. (Which is at least "extra turns" that just don't happen to be your own.)


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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2009-Mar-27 6:43 am 

Joined: 2008-Jun-20 7:38 am
Age: Elder Dragon
I have to voice my agreement of many other people who are posting here - Time Stretch is the ultimate EDH card. Sure, games revolve around it resolving. How many spells that cost that many mana don't do that (and don't suck so bad they aren't even playable in casual formats)?

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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2009-Mar-27 11:52 am 

Joined: 2009-Jan-29 8:32 am
Age: Drake
Location: Belgium
Time Stretch is only silleh when bought on credit (aka suspended with Jhoira)


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