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 Post subject: Re: Commander FAQ and Dumb Question Station
AgePosted: 2015-Aug-08 5:15 am 
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Joined: 2011-Nov-16 1:14 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Prague, Heart of Europe
Zzzyxas's Abyss

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In my early teens I was a Timmy.
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 Post subject: Re: Commander FAQ and Dumb Question Station
AgePosted: 2015-Aug-08 6:33 am 
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Age: Elder Dragon
OldVig wrote:
Carthain wrote:
*cough*
Scrabble players know it was the zyzzyva :lol:

Oh yeah? The Z, 2 Y's, both blanks, a and v in the same hand. That must come up all the time :P

Never said it was frequent. That's why the Zebra & Zygote get blamed so often and keep proclaiming their innocence!


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 Post subject: Re: Commander FAQ and Dumb Question Station
AgePosted: 2015-Aug-08 7:46 am 

Joined: 2011-Feb-15 7:09 am
Age: Drake
For some reason I'm reminded of Nnuuurrrr'c'c' , Lord of Insects, from the Elric books.
I placed Zax one time, and Zyme ought to be doable.


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 Post subject: Re: Commander FAQ and Dumb Question Station
AgePosted: 2015-Aug-13 7:20 pm 

Joined: 2008-Aug-08 6:34 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Rouen, France
In a multiplayer game, when a player loses or concedes, first all of their cards leave the game, then any control effects (like Blatant Thievery) end, then anything else they own leaves the game, like tokens, or abilities on the stack, and finally anything else they still control is exiled. So, if someone has control of your creature and they lose the game, you'll get it back if they stole it from play with something like Control Magic, but it would be exiled if they stole it from somewhere else, like with Beacon of Unrest or Bribery.


I have questions on this for specific cards: Cards that are currently exiled (with Oblivion Ring, Faceless Butcher etc.) do they come back into play or remain exiled? As they came from in-play, an extension of the ruling above would suggest that they return to play. My group has been disagreeing over this.


Warp World & The Great Aurora
I presume with Warp World & The Great Aurora, if you choose to exile your in-play Commander instead, it still goes towards your reveal/Draw count? The wording on both cards states "that many". At what point do you decide to return your commander to the command zone and at what point do these cards count "that many"? One of our players suggests that the number is locked in when you count permanents/cards in hand, while others argue that removing the commander from the action reduces the count by one.


Quote:
If your commander goes to the graveyard or is exiled, you may move it back to the command zone instead.


Finally, what's the story with leaves play triggers on commanders you chose to return to the command zone rather than place in your graveyard ? As "dies" is now shorthand for "is put into a graveyard from the battlefield", your commander is destroyed but not considered to have died. Correct? So choosing to move won't trigger Blood Artist or Skullclamp

I think that's all the fuzzy stuff we've come up against this week. We have a new player/employee in our group. Played Mirage to Invasion block and has never seen commander before so we're going over all the rules bit by bit and realising that we all have different interpretations!

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 Post subject: Re: Commander FAQ and Dumb Question Station
AgePosted: 2015-Aug-13 7:43 pm 

Joined: 2013-Oct-09 7:02 am
Age: Elder Dragon
zimagic wrote:
In a multiplayer game, when a player loses or concedes, first all of their cards leave the game, then any control effects (like Blatant Thievery) end, then anything else they own leaves the game, like tokens, or abilities on the stack, and finally anything else they still control is exiled. So, if someone has control of your creature and they lose the game, you'll get it back if they stole it from play with something like Control Magic, but it would be exiled if they stole it from somewhere else, like with Beacon of Unrest or Bribery.


I have questions on this for specific cards: Cards that are currently exiled (with Oblivion Ring, Faceless Butcher etc.) do they come back into play or remain exiled? As they came from in-play, an extension of the ruling above would suggest that they return to play. My group has been disagreeing over this.

Oblivion Ring and Faceless Butcher have triggered abilities that return the exiled card to play. Since the person is leaving the game their triggered abilities don't trigger so the cards would remain exiled.

zimagic wrote:
Warp World & The Great Aurora
I presume with Warp World & The Great Aurora, if you choose to exile your in-play Commander instead, it still goes towards your reveal/Draw count? The wording on both cards states "that many". At what point do you decide to return your commander to the command zone and at what point do these cards count "that many"? One of our players suggests that the number is locked in when you count permanents/cards in hand, while others argue that removing the commander from the action reduces the count by one.

Quote:
If your commander goes to the graveyard or is exiled, you may move it back to the command zone instead.


Having the commander go to the command zone is a replacement effect. The way replacement effects work is that instead of the first thing happening, something else happens instead (sorry this isn't very clear). So with commanders, all that changes is which zone the card goes to. Everything else is the same. In fact you could read the card as, "Each player may move their commander to the command zone then shuffle all permanents he or she owns into his or her library, then reveals that many cards from the top of his or her library." What I'm trying to say is that it will still count it even though it doesn't end up in the zone the card would normally put it.

zimagic wrote:
Finally, what's the story with leaves play triggers on commanders you chose to return to the command zone rather than place in your graveyard ? As "dies" is now shorthand for "is put into a graveyard from the battlefield", your commander is destroyed but not considered to have died. Correct? So choosing to move won't trigger Blood Artist or Skullclamp

Correct. Commanders go to the command zone instead of going to the graveyard. They don't go to the graveyard and then the command zone.


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 Post subject: Re: Commander FAQ and Dumb Question Station
AgePosted: 2015-Aug-14 5:25 am 
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Joined: 2013-Nov-04 2:12 am
Age: Dragon
Location: Northamptonshire, UK
MrCool wrote:
zimagic wrote:
In a multiplayer game, when a player loses or concedes, first all of their cards leave the game, then any control effects (like Blatant Thievery) end, then anything else they own leaves the game, like tokens, or abilities on the stack, and finally anything else they still control is exiled. So, if someone has control of your creature and they lose the game, you'll get it back if they stole it from play with something like Control Magic, but it would be exiled if they stole it from somewhere else, like with Beacon of Unrest or Bribery.


I have questions on this for specific cards: Cards that are currently exiled (with Oblivion Ring, Faceless Butcher etc.) do they come back into play or remain exiled? As they came from in-play, an extension of the ruling above would suggest that they return to play. My group has been disagreeing over this.

Oblivion Ring and Faceless Butcher have triggered abilities that return the exiled card to play. Since the person is leaving the game their triggered abilities don't trigger so the cards would remain exiled.


Do note that the more recent versions of these cards (such as Banisher Priest and Silkwrap) don't have separate triggered abilities: they have abilities with a duration so when they leave play due to their owner leaving the game the exiled card will return.

From Silkwrap's Gatherer rulings:

Silkwrap’s ability causes a zone change with a duration, a style of ability that’s somewhat reminiscent of older cards like Oblivion Ring. However, unlike Oblivion Ring, cards like Silkwrap have a single ability that creates two one-shot effects: one that exiles the creature when the ability resolves, and another that returns the exiled card to the battlefield immediately after Silkwrap leaves the battlefield.

and

In a multiplayer game, if Silkwrap’s owner leaves the game, the exiled card will return to the battlefield. Because the one-shot effect that returns the card isn’t an ability that goes on the stack, it won’t cease to exist along with the leaving player’s spells and abilities on the stack.

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 Post subject: Re: Commander FAQ and Dumb Question Station
AgePosted: 2016-Jan-26 3:16 am 

Joined: 2016-Jan-26 3:06 am
Age: Hatchling
What is the color identity of a devoid card?

I am trying to help someone understand color identity who wants to build a colorless deck. I'm pretty sure I know the answer but the official rules contradict what I think I know. I have always used colors in mana cost + color indicators + mana symbols in rules text. The official rules state "A card's colour identity is its colour plus the colour of any mana symbols in the card's rules text." The cards color is colorless and if there are no mana symbols in the rules text then this gives them a colorless identity. If I am wrong please let me know. If not can the rules be edited so that I can quote them to people.


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 Post subject: Re: Commander FAQ and Dumb Question Station
AgePosted: 2016-Jan-26 3:35 am 

Joined: 2008-Nov-30 12:36 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Gidgetimer wrote:
What is the color identity of a devoid card?

I am trying to help someone understand color identity who wants to build a colorless deck. I'm pretty sure I know the answer but the official rules contradict what I think I know. I have always used colors in mana cost + color indicators + mana symbols in rules text. The official rules state "A card's colour identity is its colour plus the colour of any mana symbols in the card's rules text." The cards color is colorless and if there are no mana symbols in the rules text then this gives them a colorless identity. If I am wrong please let me know. If not can the rules be edited so that I can quote them to people.


Color Identity includes the color symbols in their mana cost. I agree the stated rules aren't clear about this, but Devoid cards with a colored mana cost, such as Smothering Abomination for instance, do not have a CI of "Colorless".

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 Post subject: Re: Commander FAQ and Dumb Question Station
AgePosted: 2016-Jan-26 3:38 am 

Joined: 2016-Jan-26 3:06 am
Age: Hatchling
Thank you, I was pretty sure I was right. However as written the rules contradicted me so I thought I would check.


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 Post subject: Re: Commander FAQ and Dumb Question Station
AgePosted: 2016-Jan-26 3:50 am 

Joined: 2013-Aug-20 4:37 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Boston
At least in the newest CR it is unambiguous. Bolding is mine.

903.4 wrote:
The color identity of a card is the color or colors of any mana symbols in that card’s mana cost or rules text, plus any colors defined by its characteristic-defining abilities (see rule 604.3) or color indicator (see rule 204).


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 Post subject: Re: Commander FAQ and Dumb Question Station
AgePosted: 2016-Feb-17 4:10 pm 

Joined: 2016-Feb-17 3:55 pm
Age: Hatchling
Could I use Kitsune Mystic as a commander, as it flips legendary on the same face?


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 Post subject: Re: Commander FAQ and Dumb Question Station
AgePosted: 2016-Feb-17 5:31 pm 

Joined: 2012-Apr-11 7:17 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Cyberpunk Eevee wrote:
Could I use Kitsune Mystic as a commander, as it flips legendary on the same face?
Not without consent from the group in advance. You only consider the 'regular' creature normally, not flipped or 'night side'.

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 Post subject: Re: Commander FAQ and Dumb Question Station
AgePosted: 2016-Mar-18 2:10 pm 

Joined: 2010-Feb-17 1:06 pm
Age: Dragon
Location: Europe - Somewhere
If I Aethersnatch an Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger, who gets the exile triggers?

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 Post subject: Re: Commander FAQ and Dumb Question Station
AgePosted: 2016-Mar-18 2:38 pm 

Joined: 2013-Oct-09 7:02 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Everblight wrote:
If I Aethersnatch an Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger, who gets the exile triggers?

The person who cast it, which would be the person who played (or cast) it in the first place.


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 Post subject: Re: Commander FAQ and Dumb Question Station
AgePosted: 2016-Mar-28 9:15 am 

Joined: 2015-Jan-14 2:58 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
For the purposes of Experiment Kraj, activated abilities that include the card's name get copied exactly, or with "Experiment Kraj" in place of the original name? I've always assumed the second, but I want to be sure.

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