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 Post subject: Re: Lets talk about...Prophet of Kuphrix
AgePosted: 2015-Jul-14 8:30 am 

Joined: 2010-Oct-26 5:52 am
Age: Dragon
Sid the Chicken wrote:
Bull wrote:
Sounds like people here aren't running enough wrath effect cards...

Against players that are obviously using blue, and who will always have mana up unless they're complete morons? Yes... clearly the problem is "not enough answers".


this, once PoK hits the table any competent player should have total control over the game basically forever.

EDIT: just looked at the ban list changes, of which there are none... AGAIN. god this sucks.

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Maluko wrote:
We need a clear set of objective rules so that everybody always knows what to expect, and how to prepare for it. As of now, I think I spend more time arguing with players about the format than I do playing fun and interactive games of Commander. And last time I read, this was not the format's purpose.

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 Post subject: Re: Lets talk about...Prophet of Kuphrix
AgePosted: 2015-Jul-15 9:00 am 

Joined: 2013-Mar-15 8:39 am
Age: Dragon
Location: Canada, Ontario
Wouldn't leyline of anticipation and seedborn muse be more horrifying to deal with? seedborn muse untaps ALL permanents and if you're already splashing blue for your commander the flash isn't much of an issue. Think about untapping all those artifacts, creatures, and lands vs untapping creatures and lands.


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 Post subject: Re: Lets talk about...Prophet of Kuphrix
AgePosted: 2015-Jul-15 10:36 pm 

Joined: 2010-Oct-26 5:52 am
Age: Dragon
Bull wrote:
Wouldn't leyline of anticipation and seedborn muse be more horrifying to deal with? seedborn muse untaps ALL permanents and if you're already splashing blue for your commander the flash isn't much of an issue. Think about untapping all those artifacts, creatures, and lands vs untapping creatures and lands.


Yes, but then you need to tutor for two cards with different types and also be able to play them for 9 total mana AND still have leftover mana to protect them.

Prophet is one 5 mana card, is the most easily tutored/cheated out card type in the game, and leaves you with a multitude of ways to protect it because it's cheap.

Also if you're playing a green deck why do you care about artifacts? you have the most land ramp in the game and mana dorks, just use that.

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Maluko wrote:
We need a clear set of objective rules so that everybody always knows what to expect, and how to prepare for it. As of now, I think I spend more time arguing with players about the format than I do playing fun and interactive games of Commander. And last time I read, this was not the format's purpose.

QFT


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 Post subject: Re: Lets talk about...Prophet of Kuphrix
AgePosted: 2015-Jul-23 2:04 pm 

Joined: 2013-Mar-15 8:39 am
Age: Dragon
Location: Canada, Ontario
Gath Immortal wrote:
Bull wrote:
Wouldn't leyline of anticipation and seedborn muse be more horrifying to deal with? seedborn muse untaps ALL permanents and if you're already splashing blue for your commander the flash isn't much of an issue. Think about untapping all those artifacts, creatures, and lands vs untapping creatures and lands.


Yes, but then you need to tutor for two cards with different types and also be able to play them for 9 total mana AND still have leftover mana to protect them.

Prophet is one 5 mana card, is the most easily tutored/cheated out card type in the game, and leaves you with a multitude of ways to protect it because it's cheap.

Also if you're playing a green deck why do you care about artifacts? you have the most land ramp in the game and mana dorks, just use that.


So I need to play both the leyline and the muse in the same turn? Can't I play the high threat one when it's safe?

You play artifacts in a green deck because some of them are powerful and pretty broken. sol ring as the power example, mana crypt as the broken example. Turn one exploration + mana crypt + more ramp e.g. cultivate.


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 Post subject: Re: Lets talk about...Prophet of Kuphrix
AgePosted: 2015-Jul-23 2:13 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
Bull wrote:
You play artifacts in a green deck because some of them are powerful and pretty broken. sol ring as the power example, mana crypt as the broken example. Turn one exploration + mana crypt + more ramp e.g. cultivate.

It's true that Sol Ring & Friends will give you an explosive start, but their relevance rapidly decreases. By the time you can stick a prophet and reasonably protect it, you probably have enough land that the fact you can't untap the Sol Ring with PoK is pretty much irrelevant. Also, trying to cast PoK as being not as busted as a 2-card combo just doesn't work. The whole reason it's obnoxious is that it's all one card, for rather short mana. If you get Seedborn + Leyline/Orrery, it either took you a couple turns to set up, or you spent a lot in one turn, and devoted time to finding 2 cards, one of which is tough for green to find. Or you... cast Prophet of Kruphix.

Regardless of whether you feel PoK is broken enough to ban or not, comparing it to Seedborn + Leyline does not make it seem less offensive - in fact, you're proving Gath's point for him.

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 Post subject: Re: Lets talk about...Prophet of Kuphrix
AgePosted: 2015-Jul-23 2:16 pm 
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Joined: 2006-May-24 10:14 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Tampa, FL, USA
Played six games today. Saw PoK in each of them (all from other players, even though I played 3 different decks with U and G in them. In none of them was it a major factor. The combo of Seedborn Muse with Alchemist's Refuge was a little scarier (although that didn't end up taking over the game either).

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 Post subject: Re: Lets talk about...Prophet of Kuphrix
AgePosted: 2015-Jul-23 4:07 pm 

Joined: 2011-Feb-07 3:37 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
I think our group's starting to come to a consensus on Prophet -- we're leaning towards a house ban.

Our group's starting to see the same skew towards U/G/x decks that we had with SyPrime (and Primeval Titan earlier on). There's a cluster of potentially problematic cards that have simmered for a while, and we think Prophet makes 'em worse.

Haven't made a final decision yet though (we played Boss Monster 2 this week instead of EDH).

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 Post subject: Re: Lets talk about...Prophet of Kuphrix
AgePosted: 2015-Jul-24 3:57 pm 

Joined: 2009-May-05 9:45 pm
Age: Dragon
Location: Acworth, GA
This has always been one of those simple ones for my group. We don't actually have to house ban anything, but any card that we all collectively see as the fun suck that it is, we just don't play.

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 Post subject: Re: Lets talk about...Prophet of Kuphrix
AgePosted: 2015-Jul-26 1:40 pm 
EDH Rules Committee
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Joined: 2006-May-24 10:14 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Tampa, FL, USA
Buthrakaur wrote:
This has always been one of those simple ones for my group. We don't actually have to house ban anything, but any card that we all collectively see as the fun suck that it is, we just don't play.


The system is working.

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 Post subject: Re: Lets talk about...Prophet of Kuphrix
AgePosted: 2015-Jul-26 2:08 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Jul-18 9:59 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Sheldon wrote:
Buthrakaur wrote:
This has always been one of those simple ones for my group. We don't actually have to house ban anything, but any card that we all collectively see as the fun suck that it is, we just don't play.
The system is working.
Playing Devil's Advocate here;

For his group, yeah.

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 Post subject: Re: Lets talk about...Prophet of Kuphrix
AgePosted: 2015-Jul-26 2:39 pm 

Joined: 2009-May-05 9:45 pm
Age: Dragon
Location: Acworth, GA
Viperion wrote:
Sheldon wrote:
Buthrakaur wrote:
This has always been one of those simple ones for my group. We don't actually have to house ban anything, but any card that we all collectively see as the fun suck that it is, we just don't play.
The system is working.
Playing Devil's Advocate here;

For his group, yeah.



To give you a meaningful counterpoint, I love to play boardgames. Eclipse is a recent favorite. Every game I have played with my gaming group has been amazing. All 3 games I have played outside of my gaming group have been miserable. There is a distinct correlation there that most people miss.

Over the 20+ years I have been playing Magic, I have noticed it has three distinct modes of play. Competitive, which is fun if you are into it. Second, casual with a group of friends, which is fun if you all have the same vision of casual. Lastly, casual with strangers, which is only enjoyable for two types of people, the dick head trolls, and the socialites that don't actually give a rat's ass about the game they are playing. So many people on these boards don't seem to fit into either of the last two categories, and that is why they are frustrated playing the last categories type of game.

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 Post subject: Re: Lets talk about...Prophet of Kuphrix
AgePosted: 2015-Jul-27 12:11 am 
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Joined: 2010-Mar-12 3:20 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Sheldon wrote:
Played six games today. Saw PoK in each of them (all from other players, even though I played 3 different decks with U and G in them. In none of them was it a major factor.


Yeah, that pretty much matches my experience. Lots of people play Prophet, very few games are decided by him. My own Zegana deck tends to be the main deck that wins lots of games with Prophet, and that's more because I only tend to cast it when I'm in a postion to close out the game. (Or when I'm about to die, but it's rarely enough to win those games.) Even then, the main reason I win so many games with Prophet despite playing minimal tutors is that enough of my opponents play him and/or Seedborn that I can reliably steal/copy one of them.

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Alesha, She who Smiles at Death.....Atraxa, Praetors' Voice.....Eight-and-a-Half-Tails.....Gonti, Lord of Luxury.....Karametra, God of Harvests.....Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker.....Kozilek, the Great Distortion.....Prime Speaker Zegana.....Rubinia Soulsinger.....Thrasios, Triton Hero + Vial Smasher the Fierce

My general commander philosophy: Using your opponent's degenerate cards against them is far more satisfying than playing degenerate cards yourself.


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 Post subject: Re: Lets talk about...Prophet of Kuphrix
AgePosted: 2015-Aug-03 7:06 am 

Joined: 2010-Oct-26 5:52 am
Age: Dragon
Buthrakaur wrote:

To give you a meaningful counterpoint, I love to play boardgames. Eclipse is a recent favorite. Every game I have played with my gaming group has been amazing. All 3 games I have played outside of my gaming group have been miserable. There is a distinct correlation there that most people miss.

Over the 20+ years I have been playing Magic, I have noticed it has three distinct modes of play. Competitive, which is fun if you are into it. Second, casual with a group of friends, which is fun if you all have the same vision of casual. Lastly, casual with strangers, which is only enjoyable for two types of people, the dick head trolls, and the socialites that don't actually give a rat's ass about the game they are playing. So many people on these boards don't seem to fit into either of the last two categories, and that is why they are frustrated playing the last categories type of game.


for which I might add the current ban list is sorely lacking. playing with randoms is always going to be a shit show unless the LGS heavily regulates play at their store.

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Maluko wrote:
We need a clear set of objective rules so that everybody always knows what to expect, and how to prepare for it. As of now, I think I spend more time arguing with players about the format than I do playing fun and interactive games of Commander. And last time I read, this was not the format's purpose.

QFT


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 Post subject: Re: Lets talk about...Prophet of Kuphrix
AgePosted: 2015-Aug-03 8:45 am 

Joined: 2013-Aug-20 4:37 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Boston
Gath Immortal wrote:
playing with randoms is always going to be a shit show unless the LGS heavily regulates play at their store.

Or you can talk to people before hand to see what type of commander game they intend to play and then make a decision about whether to play based on that information.


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 Post subject: Re: Lets talk about...Prophet of Kuphrix
AgePosted: 2015-Aug-03 10:52 am 

Joined: 2010-Oct-26 5:52 am
Age: Dragon
JJackson wrote:
Gath Immortal wrote:
playing with randoms is always going to be a shit show unless the LGS heavily regulates play at their store.

Or you can talk to people before hand to see what type of commander game they intend to play and then make a decision about whether to play based on that information.


"I specifically came to this place to play magic, so I'm deliberately going to decide not to play magic cuz screw those guys"

yeah, stop saying stuff like that like it's EDH scripture, it doesn't cut it.

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Maluko wrote:
We need a clear set of objective rules so that everybody always knows what to expect, and how to prepare for it. As of now, I think I spend more time arguing with players about the format than I do playing fun and interactive games of Commander. And last time I read, this was not the format's purpose.

QFT


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