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 Post subject: Re: Adjusting Poison Kill
AgePosted: 2015-Mar-14 3:03 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Jan-16 5:36 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Toronto, ON
Swarm wrote:
I killed a man with Putrefax the other day! He's pretty good in Xenagos.

Once I killed a man in Reno, just to watch him die.

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 Post subject: Re: Adjusting Poison Kill
AgePosted: 2015-Mar-14 3:38 pm 

Joined: 2010-Sep-11 12:19 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
I once killed four other players with a 1/2 Azusa....


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 Post subject: Re: Adjusting Poison Kill
AgePosted: 2017-May-01 1:06 am 
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Joined: 2017-May-01 12:07 am
Age: Hatchling
Good afternoon,

I looked for the discussions and all call to this topic, so I decided to put my suggestion here.

As already stated, the difference between 40 damage and 10 poison is really absurd. In my play group we use (always) to play in team and 90% of the times when there is a poison deck, the game is unbalanced. The poison decks are well assembled, with tutors, bersek, hate, ...
Not infrequently the poison knocks down an opponent until turn 4, where everyone is finishing setting up the mana base or starting their games. With a little luck this kill happens on turn 3.

I really believe that it should be changed to 15, or at least 13. Even more today with Atraxa, which ends the 1 or 2 counters that were missing.

Note that I'm not even counting the cases where the deck can give infect to his ally's creatures, which are really rare situation but they do happen.
(Gitrog+Titanic Growth+Tainted Strike - Sad day)

It's really very unfair and anti fun, becausebe eliminated at the first 10 minutes in a game of 60 min is not fun at all.

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Adjusting Poison Kill
AgePosted: 2017-May-11 5:14 pm 

Joined: 2015-Apr-23 11:27 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Antwerp, Belgium
papa_funk wrote:

Poison tends to be good at taking out one person and bad at taking out a table.


This. It's not broken, it's just annoying as hell.

Biggest problems around here are not Skittles or Putrefax, but Blighted Agent and Tainted Strike. It doesn't take a dedicated poison deck to kill someone out of nowhere with one of these. One player dies, threat is gone before any other player is in danger, so the unlucky bastard that got hit has to sit out the rest of the game. Getting killed by poison always felt like getting suckerpunched to me.

We houseruled all 'infect' instances to be wither now, nobody gave a damn about giving it up.


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 Post subject: Re: Adjusting Poison Kill
AgePosted: 2017-May-11 9:40 pm 
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Joined: 2017-May-01 12:07 am
Age: Hatchling
Nigerian Prince wrote:
We houseruled all 'infect' instances to be wither now, nobody gave a damn about giving it up.


Not a good Choice for Us. We don't need "Ban" the deck, just make it fair,
Today it puts a target on a player and says: You will not have fun today. Go to ANOTHER DIMMENSION!!


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 Post subject: Re: Adjusting Poison Kill
AgePosted: 2017-May-12 1:26 am 
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Joined: 2010-Jan-25 4:50 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
I don't see how infect is more diruptive than any 2 card combo in EDH. Infect requires a whole deck committed to the theme, or a few one of cards that are no different than other really good synergy cards. You still have to win through combat usually which I think is fair. Run maze of ith.

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 Post subject: Re: Adjusting Poison Kill
AgePosted: 2017-May-12 1:43 am 

Joined: 2009-Apr-21 3:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Palm Springs Area, CA
Playing Lord of Tresserhorn I totally cheez'd by wife by dropping a Corrupted Conscience on him. She was very upset at the sudden loss.

I would be alright with 15 poison counters if it ends up getting more support from Wizards.

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 Post subject: Re: Adjusting Poison Kill
AgePosted: 2017-May-12 2:12 am 
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Joined: 2013-Oct-26 9:21 am
Age: Dragon
Location: Xenia, OH, USA
The only time I've ever won with infect was with a Blightsteel Colossus, which I cast Chandra's Ignition on. Cheesy, and cheap, and I took it out of that deck.


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 Post subject: Re: Adjusting Poison Kill
AgePosted: 2017-May-12 2:22 am 

Joined: 2017-May-09 1:04 pm
Age: Wyvern
tgambitg wrote:
The only time I've ever won with infect was with a Blightsteel Colossus, which I cast Chandra's Ignition on. Cheesy, and cheap, and I took it out of that deck.


I got a foil blightsteel in a trade where the guy just didn't have much in value, didn't even want the card to be honest.

So then shortly afterward, I realized the absurd brokenness of Blightsteel Colossus and Blade of Selves... I also took blightsteel out of the deck, now it just sits in my binder.... the LEGITIMATE sad robot.


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 Post subject: Re: Adjusting Poison Kill
AgePosted: 2017-May-12 6:12 am 

Joined: 2008-Nov-24 2:16 pm
Age: Dragon
Nigerian Prince wrote:
Biggest problems around here are not Skittles or Putrefax, but Blighted Agent and Tainted Strike. It doesn't take a dedicated poison deck to kill someone out of nowhere with one of these. One player dies, threat is gone before any other player is in danger, so the unlucky bastard that got hit has to sit out the rest of the game. Getting killed by poison always felt like getting suckerpunched to me.

We houseruled all 'infect' instances to be wither now, nobody gave a damn about giving it up.


How is that any different from a player being killed with any kill combo? With a Hatred? I'm gonna bet that poison player wasn't happy about losing their deck. I wasn't happy when it happened to me. I was pissed off. I spent months tweaking my Skithiryx deck. I put money into that deck.

Rogério wrote:
As already stated, the difference between 40 damage and 10 poison is really absurd. In my play group we use (always) to play in team and 90% of the times when there is a poison deck, the game is unbalanced. The poison decks are well assembled, with tutors, bersek, hate, ...


Poison is not comparable to 40 damage. It's way closer to commander damage. Most of the time, the only source is you. Voltron/Commander damage strategies, your damage is all you really care about. General aggro decks' damage work off each other.

A Skithiryx commander is not even top 5 among voltron commanders. Rafiq is way more threatening and isn't mono colored.

A poison deck has 3 options:
1. Run a low count of poison creatures, because most are trash.
2. Run the trash ones and have them easily dealt with.
3. Pad out the rest of the creature base with non-infect creatures and split the strategy.

Are your decks well assembled? I wouldn't use this point if you hadn't brought it up, but a deck having tutors and removal is hardly the basis for effectively removing a strategy from the game.

Aggro is without a doubt the easiest strategy to stop. I don't understand why people keep trying to nerf it and ask for obnoxious combo cards to be unbanned.


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 Post subject: Re: Adjusting Poison Kill
AgePosted: 2017-May-12 11:11 am 
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Joined: 2017-Mar-11 6:43 am
Age: Dragon
The problem, (I find), is that for poison to win, it often has to take out the right player at the right time, and it's fairly impossible to know for sure what to expect. Infect and Poison creatures tend to have (1) tacked onto their mana costs relative to their abilities and stats. Larger Infect creatures have to get through 3-4 mana removal and countermagic- and whoever is playing infect immediately has a Jhoira of the Ghitu sized target on their head. They are more immediately dangerous than many combo decks, and they know that they will likely get 2f1'd into the floor. While this is the fundamental reason why infect doesn't have to be adjusted to EDH, consider the following...

What keeps generals like Zur the Enchanter, Jhoira of the Ghitu and Meren of Clan Nel Toth in line? How do you convince someone in your playgroup who refuses to honor the social contract, to play a less obnoxious deck- without entirely removing them from the group?

At my LGS, a few players used to sneak a couple infect creatures into their decks specifically to tech out obnoxious decks, like a high powered Oloro deck, or an Arbiter deck that was running Stasis, Winter Orb, Orb of Dreams, and other stax which would effectively ruin the game for most of the other players at the table. Or the mono U kid who tried to run every mass bounce short of Upheaval just to irritate the table? In my experience, atleast- Infect tends to do a similar job to policing decks, but for extreme circumstances (I guess aggro decks that tech infect could be called SWAT decks or something similar in that context xD)

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 Post subject: Re: Adjusting Poison Kill
AgePosted: 2017-May-13 12:49 am 

Joined: 2009-Apr-21 3:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Palm Springs Area, CA
I just won with poison last night. Bosh tossing artifacts while equipped with grafted exoskeleton. Not sure how I feel about it.

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 Post subject: Re: Adjusting Poison Kill
AgePosted: 2017-May-14 1:25 am 
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Joined: 2006-May-24 10:14 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Tampa, FL, USA
niheloim wrote:
I just won with poison last night. Bosh tossing artifacts while equipped with grafted exoskeleton. Not sure how I feel about it.


Dirty is probably the word you're looking for :)

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 Post subject: Re: Adjusting Poison Kill
AgePosted: 2017-May-16 7:31 pm 

Joined: 2015-Apr-23 11:27 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Antwerp, Belgium
Nazotchi wrote:
Nigerian Prince wrote:
Biggest problems around here are not Skittles or Putrefax, but Blighted Agent and Tainted Strike. It doesn't take a dedicated poison deck to kill someone out of nowhere with one of these. One player dies, threat is gone before any other player is in danger, so the unlucky bastard that got hit has to sit out the rest of the game. Getting killed by poison always felt like getting suckerpunched to me.

We houseruled all 'infect' instances to be wither now, nobody gave a damn about giving it up.


How is that any different from a player being killed with any kill combo? With a Hatred? I'm gonna bet that poison player wasn't happy about losing their deck. I wasn't happy when it happened to me. I was pissed off. I spent months tweaking my Skithiryx deck. I put money into that deck.


To clarify, nobody in our playgroup had a dedicated poison deck, it was just thrown in sometimes as an alternate wincon. It was just annoying that something like Tainted Strike could take some one down out of nowhere very early on. Hatred can do that, that's right, but it sure has a way higher cost than 1B.

We have a rather casual group, so kicking someone out early in the game is somewhat frowned upon, especially if he can't properly defend himself because of mana screw or something.

Like I said, nobody cared about poison :)


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 Post subject: Re: Adjusting Poison Kill
AgePosted: 2017-May-17 12:00 am 
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Joined: 2009-Jun-02 3:54 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Germany, near Berlin
The other day I was ambush-killed by a hasty reflected and miracled Razor Swine ...

The fact, that it was a Pig Tribal deck made me feel a little less bad about it...

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