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 Post subject: Athreos, God of Passage
AgePosted: 2016-Mar-17 5:39 pm 

Joined: 2013-Mar-15 8:39 am
Age: Dragon
Location: Canada, Ontario
Anyone else been getting him in your play groups just being annoying? Mainly I feel bad for the one guy that gets constantly targeted by the death trigger. I feel he should be ban worthy because his death trigger is really powerful for a 5/4 indestructible for 3 mana.

Athreos, God of Passage


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 Post subject: Re: Athreos, God of Passage
AgePosted: 2016-Mar-17 6:54 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Jan-18 11:59 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Not really. Sure his trigger is decent, but a lot of cards shut him off completely. Most exile effects render him pretty useless, and pinpoint on-board removal is a huge plus to getting rid of him.

I've often turned to frog someone's annoying commander then used a board wipe.

Board wipe, the in response to the triggers, graveyard exile.

Darksteel Mutation, just let him chill there forever.

Or any variation there of usually works.

Another thing to remember, is if you do board wipe and not pay the 3 life, for say 9 creatures, you can pretty much guess what your opponents next turn will be.

Rebuilding his board state.

Take advantage of that.

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 Post subject: Re: Athreos, God of Passage
AgePosted: 2016-Mar-18 8:35 am 

Joined: 2013-Mar-15 8:39 am
Age: Dragon
Location: Canada, Ontario
Yea, but it's really difficult to do when you don't have haste and he has annoying little creatures like reassembling skeleton.

attrition is also really powerful in that deck.

Also the death trigger is a replacement effect trigger. The slain creatures won't hit the graveyard with athreos in play unless you pay life for them.


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 Post subject: Re: Athreos, God of Passage
AgePosted: 2016-Mar-18 8:44 am 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
Bull wrote:
Also the death trigger is a replacement effect trigger. The slain creatures won't hit the graveyard with athreos in play unless you pay life for them.

It's a regular triggered ability.
Athreos Text wrote:
Whenever another creature you own dies, return it to your hand unless target opponent pays 3 life.

Comprehensive Rules wrote:
614.1a Effects that use the word “instead” are replacement effects. Most replacement effects use the word “instead” to indicate what events will be replaced with other events.
614.1b Effects that use the word “skip” are replacement effects. These replacement effects use the word “skip” to indicate what events, steps, phases, or turns will be replaced with nothing.
614.1c Effects that read “[This permanent] enters the battlefield with . . . ,” “As [this permanent] enters the battlefield . . . ,” or “[This permanent] enters the battlefield as . . . ” are replacement effects.
614.1d Continuous effects that read “[This permanent] enters the battlefield . . .” or “[Objects] enter the battlefield . . .” are replacement effects.
614.1e Effects that read “As [this permanent] is turned face up . . . ,” are replacement effects.

Since Athreos' effect doesn't meet the above requirements, it isn't a replacement effect.

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 Post subject: Re: Athreos, God of Passage
AgePosted: 2016-Mar-18 8:51 am 

Joined: 2013-Mar-15 8:39 am
Age: Dragon
Location: Canada, Ontario
Segrus wrote:
Bull wrote:
Also the death trigger is a replacement effect trigger. The slain creatures won't hit the graveyard with athreos in play unless you pay life for them.

It's a regular triggered ability.
Athreos Text wrote:
Whenever another creature you own dies, return it to your hand unless target opponent pays 3 life.

Comprehensive Rules wrote:
614.1a Effects that use the word “instead” are replacement effects. Most replacement effects use the word “instead” to indicate what events will be replaced with other events.
614.1b Effects that use the word “skip” are replacement effects. These replacement effects use the word “skip” to indicate what events, steps, phases, or turns will be replaced with nothing.
614.1c Effects that read “[This permanent] enters the battlefield with . . . ,” “As [this permanent] enters the battlefield . . . ,” or “[This permanent] enters the battlefield as . . . ” are replacement effects.
614.1d Continuous effects that read “[This permanent] enters the battlefield . . .” or “[Objects] enter the battlefield . . .” are replacement effects.
614.1e Effects that read “As [this permanent] is turned face up . . . ,” are replacement effects.

Since Athreos' effect doesn't meet the above requirements, it isn't a replacement effect.



Oh you're right my bad.


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 Post subject: Re: Athreos, God of Passage
AgePosted: 2016-Mar-19 10:12 pm 

Joined: 2014-Jul-26 11:35 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Yep, as usual with B/W decks, graveyard hate is the answer.

Attrition is the strategy of the deck, it's a slow grind, so you can either target the engines (graveyard) or hit the ath players harder, reassembling skeleton is cute, kessig wolfrun doesnt really care about cute though.

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 Post subject: Re: Athreos, God of Passage
AgePosted: 2016-Mar-21 12:43 am 

Joined: 2011-Sep-30 6:08 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Card is fine.

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 Post subject: Re: Athreos, God of Passage
AgePosted: 2016-Mar-21 6:30 am 
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Joined: 2010-Mar-12 3:20 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Athreos isn't even in the top 5 most powerful/annoying Gods, let alone cards. Purphorous, Kruphix Xenagos, Erebos, and Karametra are much more annoying to play against.

Also, I think one of my more amusing plays in commander involved an Athreos. I board wiped his very large army and he targeted me with his 10+ triggers Atheros trigger and his 20+ Blood Artist trigger, becuse I was at 25 or so and he though I'd have to give him everything back. Instead I cast Seht's Tiger and gave myself protection from black. I lost no life, he gained no life and got back no creatures. It was glorious, and the expression of his face looked like I'd kicked him in the nuts.

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Current Commander Decks:
Alesha, She who Smiles at Death.....Atraxa, Praetors' Voice.....Eight-and-a-Half-Tails.....Gonti, Lord of Luxury.....Karametra, God of Harvests.....Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker.....Kozilek, the Great Distortion.....Prime Speaker Zegana.....Rubinia Soulsinger.....Thrasios, Triton Hero + Vial Smasher the Fierce

My general commander philosophy: Using your opponent's degenerate cards against them is far more satisfying than playing degenerate cards yourself.


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 Post subject: Re: Athreos, God of Passage
AgePosted: 2016-Mar-21 6:53 am 

Joined: 2012-Mar-31 11:52 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Well I mean, you did play Seht's Tiger. I would expect the Spanish Inquisition before that.


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 Post subject: Re: Athreos, God of Passage
AgePosted: 2016-Mar-22 12:21 am 
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Joined: 2010-Mar-12 3:20 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
cryogen wrote:
Well I mean, you did play Seht's Tiger. I would expect the Spanish Inquisition before that.

I'm a big fan of the Tiger. It's kind of like a fog on a stick that also stops a whole lot of nasty spells and/or triggers. It does help that my commander is 8.5 Tails, so I can make anything I want colored. Making Mindslaver white while it's a spell on the stack may be my favorite, since my opponents generally just think I'm being silly.

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Current Commander Decks:
Alesha, She who Smiles at Death.....Atraxa, Praetors' Voice.....Eight-and-a-Half-Tails.....Gonti, Lord of Luxury.....Karametra, God of Harvests.....Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker.....Kozilek, the Great Distortion.....Prime Speaker Zegana.....Rubinia Soulsinger.....Thrasios, Triton Hero + Vial Smasher the Fierce

My general commander philosophy: Using your opponent's degenerate cards against them is far more satisfying than playing degenerate cards yourself.


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 Post subject: Re: Athreos, God of Passage
AgePosted: 2016-Mar-22 1:56 am 
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Joined: 2006-Dec-31 12:26 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
kaldare wrote:
Making Mindslaver white while it's a spell on the stack may be my favorite, since my opponents generally just think I'm being silly.

That's a nasty trick, as so few people realize what that does.

It's like playing with banding ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Athreos, God of Passage
AgePosted: 2016-Mar-22 7:33 pm 
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Joined: 2008-Dec-15 4:52 am
Age: Drake
Location: Little Canadia
Carthain wrote:
It's like playing with banding ;)


Baton Of Morale, anyone? :D

On topic - I have no problem with Athreos. I quite enjoying piloting him, and I don't mind seeing him across the table. The Bolts to the face can hurt over time, but I find being selective about what you allow the Athreos player to get back ultimately puts more control into your hands, not theirs. You can also typically talk the player being targeted into either paying or not paying based on the board state and relevancy of what is being returned.

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 Post subject: Re: Athreos, God of Passage
AgePosted: 2016-Mar-23 6:27 am 
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Joined: 2010-Mar-12 3:20 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Dark Shade wrote:
Baton Of Morale, anyone?

I used to play that in my 8.5 tails deck too, before I went all-foil to show off.
Them: I'll attack for 120 with my hexproof, indestructible, trampling, double striking, totem armored, lifelinked Uril.
Me: I'll block with my 0/1 goat, which I'll give banding and protection from white. I'll then assign all 120 damage to said Goat. Which will all be prevented. Yes, banding actually works that way. :lol:
I miss Baton. Maybe I'll put it into Alesha. That could be fun. :twisted:

Back on topic, I played a few game with an Atheros player the other day. Between exiling removal, graveyard hate, his commander getting removed from the battlefield, and politics going against him, I think he returned maybe three things total over the course of two games. And those were all things the targeted player wanted him to have to deal with other threats. None of his selfish cards ever got recurred. Those games just reaffirmed my opinion that Atheros is a very fair commander that is pretty easily dealt with if he does try to cause trouble.

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Current Commander Decks:
Alesha, She who Smiles at Death.....Atraxa, Praetors' Voice.....Eight-and-a-Half-Tails.....Gonti, Lord of Luxury.....Karametra, God of Harvests.....Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker.....Kozilek, the Great Distortion.....Prime Speaker Zegana.....Rubinia Soulsinger.....Thrasios, Triton Hero + Vial Smasher the Fierce

My general commander philosophy: Using your opponent's degenerate cards against them is far more satisfying than playing degenerate cards yourself.


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 Post subject: Re: Athreos, God of Passage
AgePosted: 2016-Mar-24 3:32 pm 

Joined: 2012-Apr-11 7:17 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Which ban philosophy does this meet Bull?

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 Post subject: Re: Athreos, God of Passage
AgePosted: 2016-Mar-26 6:51 am 

Joined: 2009-Apr-21 3:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Palm Springs Area, CA
MRHblue wrote:
Which ban philosophy does this meet Bull?

all of them! jeez...

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