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 Post subject: Cheap Mass exile effects.
AgePosted: 2016-Apr-16 5:25 pm 

Joined: 2013-Mar-15 8:39 am
Age: Dragon
Location: Canada, Ontario
Anyone else kind of getting annoyed with effects for 0-2 mana that says exile target players' graveyard or exile all graveyards that keeps being brought back?

I kind of feel bad for most of the black green players :?

I'm thinking that for the format it would be best to ban stuff like Tormod's Crypt and Nihil Spellbomb. Their cost is too low for their effect and it's pretty unfair since they don't exile themselves like Relic of Progenitus.


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 Post subject: Re: Cheap Mass exile effects.
AgePosted: 2016-Apr-16 10:32 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
No, they shouldn't be banned. I haven't ever been annoyed enough at them to think these cards should be banned, since I barely see anyone play Tormod's Crypt or Nihil Spellbomb. This isn't a problem.

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 Post subject: Re: Cheap Mass exile effects.
AgePosted: 2016-Apr-16 11:42 pm 

Joined: 2015-Jan-14 2:58 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
I'm trying to figure out what kind of meta you play in that Athreos and Tormod's Crypt are banworthy, but prison decks are "something to play around"...

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 Post subject: Re: Cheap Mass exile effects.
AgePosted: 2016-Apr-17 3:18 pm 

Joined: 2013-Aug-20 4:37 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Boston
Segrus wrote:
I barely see anyone play Tormod's Crypt or Nihil Spellbomb.

I'm kind of surprised by that. Tormod's Crypt is a great big ball of garbage, but Nihil Spellbomb goes in most of my black decks. My meta doesn't have people doing super broken graveyard things, but there are enough Overgrown Tombs, Karmic Guides, and Animate Deads for value that the gy hate with low opportunity cost is really nice to have in a pinch. Nihil Spellbomb is cheap and replaces itself, so I pretty much start my black lists with that and Bojuka Bog.


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 Post subject: Re: Cheap Mass exile effects.
AgePosted: 2016-Apr-17 9:09 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
JJackson wrote:
I'm kind of surprised by that. Tormod's Crypt is a great big ball of garbage, but Nihil Spellbomb goes in most of my black decks. My meta doesn't have people doing super broken graveyard things, but there are enough Overgrown Tombs, Karmic Guides, and Animate Deads for value that the gy hate with low opportunity cost is really nice to have in a pinch. Nihil Spellbomb is cheap and replaces itself, so I pretty much start my black lists with that and Bojuka Bog.

I mostly just see Relic of Progenitus and Bojuka Bog. Doesn't mean that won't change at some point, it just means that's what I normally see.

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 Post subject: Re: Cheap Mass exile effects.
AgePosted: 2016-Apr-17 11:11 pm 
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Joined: 2013-Aug-06 1:27 pm
Age: Drake
Crypt, Relic, and Spellbomb are only strong against decks that rely on their graveyard.

If people are playing a bunch of cards that hose your deck I recommend building a different deck. If your playgroup begins playing hosers for that deck just switch back to your graveyard deck.


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 Post subject: Re: Cheap Mass exile effects.
AgePosted: 2016-Apr-18 12:16 am 

Joined: 2011-Sep-30 6:08 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Answers are essentially never banned. Especially hosers. Seriously. Look at every format's banned list. There are no answers there except Mental Misstep, which is just super broken in Eternal formats. (Upheaval and Balance may look like answers. They are not. Trust me.)

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 Post subject: Re: Cheap Mass exile effects.
AgePosted: 2016-Apr-18 12:31 am 
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Joined: 2010-Mar-12 3:20 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
The Atheros thread was bad enough, but this?
Don't feed the troll guys.

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 Post subject: Re: Cheap Mass exile effects.
AgePosted: 2016-Apr-18 4:11 am 
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Joined: 2013-Oct-26 9:21 am
Age: Dragon
Location: Xenia, OH, USA
I always read these threads as "I only play one playstyle, and refuse to learn another, so I need these cards that break my playstyle banned"

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 Post subject: Re: Cheap Mass exile effects.
AgePosted: 2016-Apr-18 5:14 am 

Joined: 2011-Aug-18 3:35 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
More like "my playstyle shouldn't have answers that actually work."

Cause THAT would be great game design...


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 Post subject: Re: Cheap Mass exile effects.
AgePosted: 2016-Apr-18 5:35 am 

Joined: 2013-Mar-15 8:39 am
Age: Dragon
Location: Canada, Ontario
The point of this post was that I felt bad for my black green jarad player and made a complaint on his behalf. I told him in person that black green graveyard decks are too weak in commander since graveyard hate is too easy. For his Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord I told him to get a new commander that can't be castrated so easily like Meren of Clan Nel Toth or just focus on his second ability with creatures that are fairly big on their own. Basically the issue with his deck was that academy ruins and the spellbomb kept shutting him off every game and his creatures loved having a big graveyard.

Glad to see this community labels everyone who doesn't think like them a troll. Also guys come on I'm not saying ban all mass exile effects. I'm just saying some of them are too good for what they do. Like comparing counterspell to mana drain pretty sure if everyone could get mana drain they would run it over counterspell since it's so much stronger.


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 Post subject: Re: Cheap Mass exile effects.
AgePosted: 2016-Apr-18 5:53 am 
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Joined: 2013-May-29 9:57 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Atlanta, GA
Speaking as someone whose primary EDH deck is GY-based... yeah, no.

I mean sure, there are some obnoxious ones like Rest In Peace or Leyline of the Void that stick around and are hard to get rid of, but for the most part yard-hate is all one shot effects that have to be timed just right for maximum effect, and that timing is actually pretty hard to gauge.

More to the point though is that the majority of GY decks can win without the yard. Reanimation, to use probably the most popular example of the archetype, more uses the yard for sake of convenience than anything else. Sure, now you can't Animate Dead that Sheoldred on turn 3, but a mana rock or two later and she's out in just two or three turns. Hell, I've actually won a few games with my Bladewing deck where I never reanimated a thing; just drew the right things and hard-cast em. Happens more often than you'd think.

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 Post subject: Re: Cheap Mass exile effects.
AgePosted: 2016-Apr-18 8:44 am 

Joined: 2011-Aug-18 3:35 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Bull wrote:
Basically the issue with his deck was that academy ruins and the spellbomb kept shutting him off every game and his creatures loved having a big graveyard.


He's getting shut down by a six mana two card combo. How often is that likely to come up? Why is the other player skipping his turns to repeatedly shut down the Jarad player? What would answer his issues? Maybe a spellbomb of his own to get rid of the spellbomb. ...or god forbid, a strip mine. A graveyard deck being shut down by reanimation... is that irony?

This isn't a single card showing up occasionally causing paralyzing issues for the player. This is a repeatable loop that is actively being used to shut him off. If it's showing up "every game" then he's actively tutoring for the means to shut him down rather than for his own win conditions. Every strategy has a potential counter strategy that they have to overcome. There are very easy answers to what is causing your friend issues. Perhaps the easiest one would be saying "Stop being an asshole" to the guy that keeps playing kingmaker by skipping his own turn and shutting down the BG player.


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 Post subject: Re: Cheap Mass exile effects.
AgePosted: 2016-Apr-18 8:54 am 
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Joined: 2010-Jul-18 9:59 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Epsilon wrote:
A graveyard deck being shut down by reanimation... is that irony?

It's like 10,000 reanimation targets when all you need is a Caustic Rain
<sings>
It's like Raaaay-eee-aaaaiiiin on your stupid land
It's a free wiiiiiiiipe, when you've already raised
It's the good adviiiiiice that you just didn't take
And who would have thought, it's fragile...
</sings>

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 Post subject: Re: Cheap Mass exile effects.
AgePosted: 2016-Apr-18 12:17 pm 

Joined: 2012-Apr-11 7:17 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Bull wrote:
Glad to see this community labels everyone who doesn't think like them a troll.
No, just the ones that bring up the same stuff over and over, and choose not to listen to reason. None of the cards you mentioned meet any of the ban criteria, just like the other cards you think should be banned.

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