Login | Register


All times are UTC - 7 hours


It is currently 2019-Aug-24 11:16 am




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Harsh Justice question
AgePosted: 2016-Apr-30 5:30 am 

Joined: 2010-Mar-10 1:31 pm
Age: Dragon
silly question but could Harsh Justice kill a player with commander damage from that player's commander?

_________________
onlainari wrote:
trappedslider wrote:
EDIT: so if i somehow manged to get down to 1 life,played Repay in Kind followed by Decree of Annihilation then it owuld be bad evil juju?

That's not how magic works. You can't equate cards and situations linearly like that!


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Harsh Justice question
AgePosted: 2016-Apr-30 6:28 am 

Joined: 2015-Jan-14 2:58 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
No. It's not combat damage.

_________________
Deepglow Skate
Antis wrote:
I'm seriously suspicious of any card that makes Doubling Season look fair and reasonable.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Harsh Justice question
AgePosted: 2016-Apr-30 7:11 am 
EDH Rules Committee
User avatar

Joined: 2006-May-24 10:14 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Tampa, FL, USA
Spectrar Ghost wrote:
No. It's not combat damage.


Plus, even if it was, you'd have to work out the problem of dying to commander damage before the trigger resolves. Reflect Damage, however. That'll kill a brother.

_________________
"Leave the gun. Take the cannolis."


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Harsh Justice question
AgePosted: 2016-Apr-30 8:05 am 

Joined: 2016-Mar-16 12:03 pm
Age: Drake
Sheldon wrote:
Spectrar Ghost wrote:
No. It's not combat damage.


Plus, even if it was, you'd have to work out the problem of dying to commander damage before the trigger resolves. Reflect Damage, however. That'll kill a brother.

Reflect damage, haha, I haven't seen mention of that in a long time. I used to play with that, too. Great for anti-voltron kicks and giggles.

_________________
Current decks:
Xenagos, God of Revels - Hydras

Under Re-Construction:
Hazezon Tamar - Defenders of Dune (only 8 less Fremen/equipment, adding ramp and answers)
Prime Speaker Zegana - Zegana's R&D
Jenara, Asura of War - Jenara's Celestial Army (needs more answers, ramp, less angels...turns out Jenara can tank quite effectively as a voltron.)

Nuked decks:
Sliver Queen - Tokens (converted back to the 60 card deck it originated from, ending its edh dependency on tutors)


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Harsh Justice question
AgePosted: 2016-Apr-30 8:22 am 

Joined: 2010-Mar-10 1:31 pm
Age: Dragon
Well, as i said silly question and thanks sheldon for pointing out reflect damage

_________________
onlainari wrote:
trappedslider wrote:
EDIT: so if i somehow manged to get down to 1 life,played Repay in Kind followed by Decree of Annihilation then it owuld be bad evil juju?

That's not how magic works. You can't equate cards and situations linearly like that!


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Harsh Justice question
AgePosted: 2016-May-01 7:53 pm 

Joined: 2015-Apr-23 11:27 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Antwerp, Belgium
I had to look up the oracle text of the card (Sorcery?) :)

I don't understand how this is not combat damage... It's damage dealt by a creature by attacking and dealing damage in combat, it's not Harsh Justice that deals the damage, unlike cards as Eye for an eye.

I'm sure you're all correct, but can someone explain to me how exactly the result is different from Reflect damage?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Harsh Justice question
AgePosted: 2016-May-01 9:38 pm 

Joined: 2011-Jan-01 6:00 am
Age: Wyvern
It's quite easy: combat damage is when a creature attackes and isn't blocked.
This card isn't saying it deals the combat damage to the other player also, but explicit says: The creature deals damage to the controller. This isn't combat damage! It's damaged caused by the creature due to a spell. Even if it's during attack etc pp.

The same with Aerie Ouphes: they deal the damage, but even when sac. them during attack, still not combat damage.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Harsh Justice question
AgePosted: 2016-May-02 2:59 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2011-May-04 9:09 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Saskatchewan
Mirror Strike is a beautiful card these reasons. Winning a game off this cards back is a great feeling.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Harsh Justice question
AgePosted: 2016-May-03 1:06 am 

Joined: 2015-Apr-23 11:27 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Antwerp, Belgium
foolx wrote:
It's quite easy: combat damage is when a creature attackes and isn't blocked.
This card isn't saying it deals the combat damage to the other player also, but explicit says: The creature deals damage to the controller. This isn't combat damage! It's damaged caused by the creature due to a spell. Even if it's during attack etc pp.

The same with Aerie Ouphes: they deal the damage, but even when sac. them during attack, still not combat damage.


So okay, I know it's plain silly talking about cards that don't exist, but if the aforementioned Mirror Strike wouldn't have the word ''combat'' in its rule text, it wouldn't be commander damage but now it is?

But since it does have the word ''combat'', it's not
foolx wrote:
damage caused by a creature due to a spell
?

Not trying to troll here, I actually have a hard time understanding where to draw the line between all of these kind of cards...


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Harsh Justice question
AgePosted: 2016-May-03 1:59 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2006-Dec-31 12:26 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Nigerian Prince wrote:
Not trying to troll here, I actually have a hard time understanding where to draw the line between all of these kind of cards...

So combat damage, is when a creature deals damage through combat (to blocked creatures if blocked, to players/planeswalkers if unblocked).

If a spell does damage, it's not combat damage.
If a spell causes a creature to deal damage, it's not combat damage.
If a spell redirects damage -- then if it redirects combat damage, it's still combat damage.
The thing to watch out for, is spells that prevent damage, and then cause damage.

Harsh Justice is an example of the second one (the spell causes the creatures to deal damage.)
Reflect Damage is an example of the third one. It just takes the damage, and applies it to a different target - the source is still the same.
Comeuppance is an example of the last one. It prevents the damage, and then the spell itself deals the damage back to the creature/controller.

Does that help?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Harsh Justice question
AgePosted: 2016-May-03 10:58 am 

Joined: 2014-Jul-26 11:35 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Harsh justice causes the creature to deal damage to it's controller equal to the amount of combat damage it deals. This is not combat damage, just some damage being dealt by the creature that happens to equal the amount dealt in combat. It is the same kind of damage dealt by heartless hidetsugu, which is also not commander damage.

The redirect effect of mirror strike and reflect damage take the combat damage that would be dealt and move it somewhere else, it's the same kind of damage put in a different place, where Harsh justice creates a new bunch of damage, related to but seperate from combat, and assigns it to someone

_________________
Favourite Deck:
Ghost Council of Orzhova

Playing Online:
Noyan Darr & Sedris Zombie Guy


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Harsh Justice question
AgePosted: 2016-May-03 5:38 pm 

Joined: 2015-Apr-23 11:27 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Antwerp, Belgium
That does help, thanks Carthain and Specter404.

It still feels a little illogical to me, but I try to think of it like this now: if the flow of damage is interrupted/fractured somewhere, it's not commander damage, if it's just rerouted, it's commander damage. Now we'll just hope that it doesn't come up too often in our games :)


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Harsh Justice question
AgePosted: 2016-May-04 1:02 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2006-Dec-31 12:26 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Nigerian Prince wrote:
It still feels a little illogical to me, but I try to think of it like this now: if the flow of damage is interrupted/fractured somewhere, it's not commander damage, if it's just rerouted, it's commander damage. Now we'll just hope that it doesn't come up too often in our games :)

That's not technically how it works -- but following that should let you get the right answer in I'd say at least 90% of cases :)


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 7 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 66 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: