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 Post subject: Quick question about wishes
AgePosted: 2016-May-17 5:21 pm 

Joined: 2015-Apr-23 11:27 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Antwerp, Belgium
So, probably a silly question, but I can't find much about it in the rules section...

When using cards like Living Wish, you need a sideboard. What does a commander sideboard have to look like? Does it follow the color restrictions? Can you add, say, a Command Tower when you already have one in your 99?

I suppose you should consider the sideboard as an extention of the 99, it feels wrong to construct it differently, but I just want to be sure because sideboarding is becoming a somewhat annoying habit in one of our groups.

If there aren't any specific rules, does anyone have any best practices to share?


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 Post subject: Re: Quick question about wishes
AgePosted: 2016-May-17 7:22 pm 

Joined: 2012-Oct-09 1:35 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Stoke-On-Trent, England, UK
There is not an official rule for using a sideboard in EDH. So basically the wish would do nothing. If I were constructing one, or enforcing rules in my meta, i would say they definitely need to follow deck construction rules and colours.

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 Post subject: Re: Quick question about wishes
AgePosted: 2016-May-18 12:43 am 
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Joined: 2009-Jun-02 3:54 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Germany, near Berlin
Nigerian Prince wrote:
What does a commander sideboard have to look like? Does it follow the color restrictions? Can you add, say, a Command Tower when you already have one in your 99?


Can you have a fifth Reflector Mage in your Standard Sideboard? Or a Lightning Bolt?
If you have a sideboard, then it must follow the format's construction rules (only one copy in deck+board together, color identity, format legality)
There actually once was (or still is?) an optional Sideboard Rule (= 10 cards, to be swapped 1:1 before each game, after commanders are announced.)

Since Commander is a Casual format, a Wish would actually get you ANY card from your whole collection (that is any with appropriate properties according to the Wish in question).
However, common sense and pre-game communication with your play group should be enough. "Hey guys, I use these 10 cards as a wishboard, is that OK for you? Otherwise I'll swap that wish for (random good card from that board)."

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If your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

Generals:
too many, and always changing... except:

Rakdos, Lord of Riots (Demon Tribal)
Melek, Izzet Paragon (Dragonstorm) -> these must stay because of a house rule


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 Post subject: Re: Quick question about wishes
AgePosted: 2016-May-18 1:40 am 

Joined: 2015-Apr-23 11:27 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Antwerp, Belgium
Well, common sense would be to forget about wishes alltogether, since they have a faint smell of cheating to me, but, as I said, one of my play groups is doing a little bit of experimenting with it, but nobody really knows what we're doing here.

Thor_Naadoh wrote:
Can you have a fifth Reflector Mage in your Standard Sideboard? Or a Lightning Bolt?


Well actually, I wasn't sure about that either :oops:

Obviously you can't play the fifth card in your deck, so it's just silly to have it occupy a spot in your SB, but I don't know if there's an actual rule that prevents you from having a 15 Lightning Bolt side board.

Now I think about it, there probably is, it would be considered as deliberate-judge-annoying to bring that SB to a tournament.


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 Post subject: Re: Quick question about wishes
AgePosted: 2016-May-18 2:17 am 
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Joined: 2006-May-18 5:21 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Nigerian Prince wrote:
So, probably a silly question, but I can't find much about it in the rules section...


Go to the "Play" section. This is covered by Rule 13.


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 Post subject: Re: Quick question about wishes
AgePosted: 2016-May-18 3:10 am 

Joined: 2014-Sep-13 7:28 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Nigerian Prince wrote:
Now I think about it, there probably is, it would be considered as deliberate-judge-annoying to bring that SB to a tournament.

Between the main deck and the side board total, you can't have more than 4 copies of a card with the same english name. This is the same. Within your 99/100 and your 10, you can't have dupes. Except basic lands, as always.

I don't think your group is trying to cheat you, but you should talk to them and say that we haven't all agreed that's ok, since it's not even an official rule. Or, you could jam Cunning Wish and Living Wish. They're pretty fun and interesting if you ask me.


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 Post subject: Re: Quick question about wishes
AgePosted: 2016-May-18 5:21 pm 

Joined: 2015-Apr-23 11:27 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Antwerp, Belgium
papa_funk wrote:
Go to the "Play" section. This is covered by Rule 13.


Yes, that's what I meant by ''not much'', it's basically left to every groups own agreements. Since we have none, I wondered if anyone has any experience with adding sideboards?

Sovarius wrote:
I don't think your group is trying to cheat you, but you should talk to them and say that we haven't all agreed that's ok, since it's not even an official rule. Or, you could jam Cunning Wish and Living Wish. They're pretty fun and interesting if you ask me.


Yeah I'm sure they're not trying to cheat, they're just exploring borders.
What i meant was, that a card like Cunning Wish might be fun, but is extremely powerfull, perhaps too much. It's basically an extended version of Who/What/When/Where/Why.

Anyway, what I get from all answers is that there are no commander specific rules about it, so we'll go with standard rules, and be gratefull it has the '... and remove ~~ from the game"-clause so we won't see too much shenannigans.


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 Post subject: Re: Quick question about wishes
AgePosted: 2016-May-19 12:30 am 
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Joined: 2009-Jun-02 3:54 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Germany, near Berlin
Nigerian Prince wrote:
Anyway, what I get from all answers is that there are no commander specific rules about it, so we'll go with standard rules, and be gratefull it has the '... and remove ~~ from the game"-clause so we won't see too much shenannigans.


Not now, that Shahrazad is also banned in Commander (and partly because "removed from the game" became a game-zone called exile.)

Before, you could start a subgame, find your Burning Wish in that subgame, wish for the still-resolving Shahrazad (it's outside of the subgame) and then start a sub-subgame
Then use Ring of Ma'rûf and start a sub-sub-subgame.
Maybe even Golden Wish for the RFG'd Ring of Ma'rûf and do it again

Well, you get the point: this doesn't work anymore, but I am sad, that Shahrazad has always been a bit too expensive for me to troll my play group that way.


To add relevant content: Simply ask your opponents and if they object, replace your wish(es) with the generally best card you could wish for.
I do the same for my pirate deck, that normally MUST have a Flying Spaghetti Monster. Emrakul or I get YOUR best creature via Bribery.

_________________
If your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

Generals:
too many, and always changing... except:

Rakdos, Lord of Riots (Demon Tribal)
Melek, Izzet Paragon (Dragonstorm) -> these must stay because of a house rule


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 Post subject: Re: Quick question about wishes
AgePosted: 2016-May-19 1:46 am 

Joined: 2009-Oct-08 1:00 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Nigerian Prince wrote:
Anyway, what I get from all answers is that there are no commander specific rules about it, so we'll go with standard rules, and be gratefull it has the '... and remove ~~ from the game"-clause so we won't see too much shenannigans.

Very much the contrary, for whatever reason the Wishes and similar effects are effectively the only case in Commander of format-specific errata. You should assume they don't work at all unless you get an explicit buy-in from the other people present.

In terms of actually using them in play: the big question is mostly how competitive you get during play. For groups that play on an ultra-chill beer-and-pretzels level, it's usually gonna be fine to just play them as written for casual and let people get any format-legal card from their collection -- in that type of environment it's not too hard to call party foul if someone starts using it for something obnoxious.

In the build-casually-play-competitively level (where people do get reasonably serious about playing to win) I'd just follow the old rule and institute a ten-card wishboard. It's funny, but whereas you might initially assume that in a Highlander format Wishes become more powerful, it's actually the opposite: there have been a lot of constructed decks that essentially play seven copies of a card (or four of a restricted one) via wishes, but in Commander any card you have in your wishboard by definition can't be in the 99 -- so there's a tactical tradeoff on whether someone wants the card available during regular play or only when they draw the one or two Wishes that can fetch it. In my experience that's plenty to keep the wishes under control.


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 Post subject: Re: Quick question about wishes
AgePosted: 2016-May-19 4:36 am 

Joined: 2014-Sep-13 7:28 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Nigerian Prince wrote:
papa_funk wrote:
Go to the "Play" section. This is covered by Rule 13.


Yes, that's what I meant by ''not much'', it's basically left to every groups own agreements. Since we have none, I wondered if anyone has any experience with adding sideboards?

If you have no agreement, then there are no sideboards. So i would again suggest talking to them.

But if you have no sway or are outvoted, eh. I mean, Cunning Wish you have to kind of build around. And you pay for Wish and then for the next spell. It's just a really efficient tutor because you don't need to put cards that sort of belong in SB into your main deck. But that's sort of sloppy, i think. Because you get 100 cards and you can definitely pack in some removal type of stuff. Being multiplayer, i have always found someone is a worthy target for removal. Artifact/Enchantment removal pretty much has always applied at any point in the game, in my experience. Keeping Krosan Grip in the SB is for 60-card formats. haha. Tell them they are sloppy. Or embrace the the little extra freedom in deckbuilding you get.


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 Post subject: Re: Quick question about wishes
AgePosted: 2016-May-21 4:32 am 

Joined: 2008-Aug-08 6:34 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Rouen, France
Just confirming, Wishes can't get cards exiled during the game whether face up or face down, right?

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Scarab God Zombie Horde
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 Post subject: Re: Quick question about wishes
AgePosted: 2016-May-21 4:35 am 

Joined: 2015-Jan-14 2:58 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
zimagic wrote:
Just confirming, Wishes can't get cards exiled during the game whether face up or face down, right?


This is correct, since exile is now a game zone.

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 Post subject: Re: Quick question about wishes
AgePosted: 2016-May-21 4:40 am 

Joined: 2008-Aug-08 6:34 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Rouen, France
Spectrar Ghost wrote:
zimagic wrote:
Just confirming, Wishes can't get cards exiled during the game whether face up or face down, right?


This is correct, since exile is now a game zone.


My Phyrexian Portal deck cries at your confirmation. :cry:

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Current decks:
Sydri's random pile of cards with "Artifact" on them
Scarab God Zombie Horde
Sissay 5c Superfriends
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 Post subject: Re: Quick question about wishes
AgePosted: 2016-May-21 10:50 pm 

Joined: 2008-Aug-08 6:34 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Rouen, France
Speaking of which, does phyrexian portal exile cards face up or down?

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Current decks:
Sydri's random pile of cards with "Artifact" on them
Scarab God Zombie Horde
Sissay 5c Superfriends
Morophon Eldrazi (5C Devoid)
Grenzo's Goblins


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 Post subject: Re: Quick question about wishes
AgePosted: 2016-May-22 1:49 am 

Joined: 2015-Jan-14 2:58 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Face up, since the card doesn't specify face down. (CR406.3)

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Antis wrote:
I'm seriously suspicious of any card that makes Doubling Season look fair and reasonable.


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