Login | Register


All times are UTC - 7 hours


It is currently 2019-Nov-17 9:57 pm




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 158 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: My Case for a Braids Cabal Minion unbanning
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-16 6:09 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2016-May-16 12:03 pm
Age: Dragon
Location: The Blind Eternities
@Marit_Lage Yeah but how long ago because in the past couple years she has been banned, we have gotten a lot more diversity of cards, especially ever since Return to ravinica. I hate to sound mean but simply having those cards sounds like Magical Christmasland because realistically, who is going to have cards from the vintage masters set considering they are expensive and not every player is going to have them. Most players would readily available access to cards as far back as Mirrodin in their local game shops, or even shards of alara if they are lucky, unless they order specifically online. It also sounds like you set the individual up in question to fail because you guys built House Deck with cards that he or she wouldn't known about, or even had immediate access to.

@Sovarius I can name several cards off the top of my head that shatner out tokens, such as From Beyond, Call to Scions, Blisterpod, Eldrazi Skyspawner, Incubator Drone, Nest Invader, Scion Summoner as far as eldrazi. Retreat to emeria shatners out Kor tokens for every land, and SOI's Investigate ability on numerous cards that produce an artifact token that benefit from being sacrificed directly or indirectly. Not mentioning we have the nyx gods who are pretty much immune to her. There is also eldrazi temple, and eye of ugin that reduce their costs severely.

Also thank you for the compliment because I would focus more on Braids Sac outlet than for Stax play because seriously, Stax is no fun especially when it comes to Motherbleeping land destruction. Its not really her fault that she is used for Stax play, which we can all agree is shenanigans at times, but thats the players fault. Besides, they are worser decks with commanders that are far more ruthless, such as Richard Garfield Ph.D who can literally turn any card into anything.

_________________
Image

RaiRai's Decks of Otherworldlyness:

Unknown Horizons
Bane of the Vast 1.0
Call from Eternity
Twisted Nightmares


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: My Case for a Braids Cabal Minion unbanning
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-16 6:16 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
RaiRai wrote:
Its not really her fault that she is used for Stax play, which we can all agree is shenanigans at times, but thats the players fault.

That is literally all she does. If you can't understand this basic concept, then you are unfit to discuss the card. Period. There is no reason to play Braids unless you want to be a Stax-playing, game-ruining, land-destroying jerk.

EDIT: Also did you just argue that Braids should be legal because of Richard Garfield, a card that's in an un-set and therefore NOT LEGAL FOR EDH?

_________________
"The President's job - and if someone sufficiently vain and stupid is picked he won't realize this - is not to wield power, but to draw attention away from it." -- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide tot he Galaxy Radio Transcripts predicting the future.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: My Case for a Braids Cabal Minion unbanning
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-16 6:26 am 

Joined: 2016-Feb-13 2:14 pm
Age: Dragon
Location: Orlando, Florida
RaiRai wrote:
@Marit_Lage Yeah but how long ago because in the past couple years she has been banned, we have gotten a lot more diversity of cards, especially ever since Return to ravinica. I hate to sound mean but simply having those cards sounds like Magical Christmasland because realistically, who is going to have cards from the vintage masters set considering they are expensive and not every player is going to have them. Most players would readily available access to cards as far back as Mirrodin in their local game shops, or even shards of alara if they are lucky, unless they order specifically online. It also sounds like you set the individual up in question to fail because you guys built House Deck with cards that he or she wouldn't known about, or even had immediate access to.

Most of the cards in that deck were under $5. "Vintage Masters?" You're joking, right? That was a MTGO only set, made up of online cards. Most cards that make Braids good are less than $3-$5, with some notable exceptions. And of course it was set up to fail. That was the point that Doug made.

I would rather deal with Rofellos or Erayo before Braids. At least then I can attempt to play the game.

Edit: Also, Braids has been banned a long time. Seriously. A very long time. Not sure if she was banned at the conception of EDH, but I'm sure someone here will chime in.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: My Case for a Braids Cabal Minion unbanning
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-16 6:33 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
It happened in June 2009. That's when she was banned as a general, moving to fully banned when the "as a general" list was abolished.

_________________
"The President's job - and if someone sufficiently vain and stupid is picked he won't realize this - is not to wield power, but to draw attention away from it." -- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide tot he Galaxy Radio Transcripts predicting the future.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: My Case for a Braids Cabal Minion unbanning
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-16 6:41 am 

Joined: 2015-Jan-14 2:58 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Ima get more popcorn. Anyone else need a refill?

_________________
Deepglow Skate
Antis wrote:
I'm seriously suspicious of any card that makes Doubling Season look fair and reasonable.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: My Case for a Braids Cabal Minion unbanning
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-16 6:43 am 

Joined: 2016-Feb-13 2:14 pm
Age: Dragon
Location: Orlando, Florida
Spectrar Ghost wrote:
Ima get more popcorn. Anyone else need a refill?

I've got a few gallons of gasoline. I just need a match.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: My Case for a Braids Cabal Minion unbanning
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-16 7:05 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2013-May-29 9:57 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Atlanta, GA
Marit Lage wrote:
Spectrar Ghost wrote:
Ima get more popcorn. Anyone else need a refill?

I've got a few gallons of gasoline. I just need a match.

Be right back, I need to grab some more jokes and off-brand references.

Geez, being the forum troll is hard work. I can see why Joz quit.

_________________
"Expect nothing but scorn, flattery, and lies. And never turn your back on him." - The Northern Paladin

Bladewing the Risen - MTG: Blood Dragon - OST by Powerglove
Dosan the Falling Leaf - Mono-Green Accelerator
Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter - Feed it to Vish
Toshiro Umezawa - Budget Creatureless
Prossh, Skyraider of Kher - Combo Jund
Marath, Will of the Wild - Beast-Mode Tribal
Scion of the Ur-Dragon - Mortal Combat Dredge
Kamahl & Jeska - Tag Team Voltron


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: My Case for a Braids Cabal Minion unbanning
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-16 7:37 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2008-May-04 6:05 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Wisconsin
Zirilan of the Claw wrote:
Marit Lage wrote:
Spectrar Ghost wrote:
Ima get more popcorn. Anyone else need a refill?

I've got a few gallons of gasoline. I just need a match.

Be right back, I need to grab some more jokes and off-brand references.

Geez, being the forum troll is hard work. I can see why Joz quit.


In regard to the statement about Joz, and in part to derail this thread even more, I've noticed a severe lack of participants in this forum/site as compared to a few years back. It concerns me to some extent.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: My Case for a Braids Cabal Minion unbanning
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-16 8:28 am 

Joined: 2014-Jul-26 11:35 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Marit Lage wrote:
RaiRai wrote:
specter404 wrote:
removed


Dont you dare put RaiRai's words under my name, there is no more defamatory action on this forum at this time.

RaiRai wrote:
Chill out man, and I severely misinterpreted (My bad) Braids's ability " At the beginning of each player's upkeep, that player sacrifices an artifact, creature, or land." which really isn't that bad considering the Color Archetypes you'd face in commander. Examples, T2 Awakening Zone takes effect every upkeep so her ability becomes pointless.


The problem here is two fold. Firstly if your opponent plays Braids, in your upkeep you will have to Sac, so you dont get to play your awakening zone because you dont have the mana any more. Secondly, let's assume you got there first and play the zone before they play braids, the way the stack works your awakening zone triggers and then braids triggers (APNAP order) so braids resolves first and you have to sac a permanent before you get your token (and dont even begin to argue this order with me or I will beat you with a rule book). So your zone helps but even in this best case scenario it will still hurt your development.

_________________
Favourite Deck:
Ghost Council of Orzhova

Playing Online:
Noyan Darr & Sedris Zombie Guy


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: My Case for a Braids Cabal Minion unbanning
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-16 8:34 am 

Joined: 2016-Feb-13 2:14 pm
Age: Dragon
Location: Orlando, Florida
Fixed it for ya, specter.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: My Case for a Braids Cabal Minion unbanning
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-16 12:55 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2016-May-16 12:03 pm
Age: Dragon
Location: The Blind Eternities
specter404 wrote:
Dont you dare put RaiRai's words under my name, there is no more defamatory action on this forum at this time.

RaiRai wrote:
Chill out man, and I severely misinterpreted (My bad) Braids's ability " At the beginning of each player's upkeep, that player sacrifices an artifact, creature, or land." which really isn't that bad considering the Color Archetypes you'd face in commander. Examples, T2 Awakening Zone takes effect every upkeep so her ability becomes pointless.


The problem here is two fold. Firstly if your opponent plays Braids, in your upkeep you will have to Sac, so you dont get to play your awakening zone because you dont have the mana any more. Secondly, let's assume you got there first and play the zone before they play braids, the way the stack works your awakening zone triggers and then braids triggers (APNAP order) so braids resolves first and you have to sac a permanent before you get your token (and dont even begin to argue this order with me or I will beat you with a rule book). So your zone helps but even in this best case scenario it will still hurt your development.


Okay lets look at Braids ability first, it only targets Artifacts, Lands and Creatures, so Enchantments are off her crosshairs, and only affects the player on the turn of their upkeep. Now a quick question, does Awakening Zone resolve before or after her ability resolves? Also what is preventing me from playing Exploration or similar card that allows me to shatnering out more sac fodder because dependant on the deck I am playing, I am developing a large board state by t2 if not turn three dependent if I have sol ring or not, or a similar artifact. For her to do as much as damage herself, it ain't gonna happen in most decks as of 2016, especially online because I have seen players crank out 4 lands turn 1 thanks to mana crypt and albeit sol ring, then one of the guild signets. I am even guilty of cranking out hedron crawler t1, or cracking some cheap artifacts out to have the mana to play my normal shenanigans.

How about we just let Braids off the bench for a while because 9 years for a card to be banned is ridiculous, and if it gets too bad, we ban her again because I am now itching to make a Braids deck that revolves around her sac function.

_________________
Image

RaiRai's Decks of Otherworldlyness:

Unknown Horizons
Bane of the Vast 1.0
Call from Eternity
Twisted Nightmares


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: My Case for a Braids Cabal Minion unbanning
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-16 1:19 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2015-Mar-18 12:55 pm
Age: Drake
RaiRai wrote:
specter404 wrote:
Dont you dare put RaiRai's words under my name, there is no more defamatory action on this forum at this time.

RaiRai wrote:
Chill out man, and I severely misinterpreted (My bad) Braids's ability " At the beginning of each player's upkeep, that player sacrifices an artifact, creature, or land." which really isn't that bad considering the Color Archetypes you'd face in commander. Examples, T2 Awakening Zone takes effect every upkeep so her ability becomes pointless.


The problem here is two fold. Firstly if your opponent plays Braids, in your upkeep you will have to Sac, so you dont get to play your awakening zone because you dont have the mana any more. Secondly, let's assume you got there first and play the zone before they play braids, the way the stack works your awakening zone triggers and then braids triggers (APNAP order) so braids resolves first and you have to sac a permanent before you get your token (and dont even begin to argue this order with me or I will beat you with a rule book). So your zone helps but even in this best case scenario it will still hurt your development.


Okay lets look at Braids ability first, it only targets Artifacts, Lands and Creatures, so Enchantments are off her crosshairs, and only affects the player on the turn of their upkeep. Now a quick question, does Awakening Zone resolve before or after her ability resolves? Also what is preventing me from playing Exploration or similar card that allows me to shatnering out more sac fodder because dependant on the deck I am playing, I am developing a large board state by t2 if not turn three dependent if I have sol ring or not, or a similar artifact. For her to do as much as damage herself, it ain't gonna happen in most decks as of 2016, especially online because I have seen players crank out 4 lands turn 1 thanks to mana crypt and albeit sol ring, then one of the guild signets. I am even guilty of cranking out hedron crawler t1, or cracking some cheap artifacts out to have the mana to play my normal shenanigans.

How about we just let Braids off the bench for a while because 9 years for a card to be banned is ridiculous, and if it gets too bad, we ban her again because I am now itching to make a Braids deck that revolves around her sac function.

You're completely disregarding the arguments and points of everyone here. Enchantments are safe from Braids herself, but not from the player. There's plenty of ways to lock down someone's board in Black.

_________________
The QFT Section
Sheldon wrote:
The cards didn't just warp the way the games were played, they warped how I was conceiving and perceiving the format. That's the sign of a problem.

Carthain wrote:
The idea that you should be able to build your deck however you want and still be competitive is false, and a bad idea to have. Taken to the extreme, that's like making a deck with no removal in it, and then complaining that you can't win because stuff your opponents play gets in your way.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: My Case for a Braids Cabal Minion unbanning
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-16 1:29 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2010-Jul-18 9:59 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
RaiRai wrote:
specter404 wrote:
Secondly, let's assume you got there first and play the zone before they play braids, the way the stack works your awakening zone triggers and then braids triggers (APNAP order) so braids resolves first and you have to sac a permanent before you get your token

Now a quick question, does Awakening Zone resolve before or after her ability resolves?

Dude. You are doing it AGAIN. Please READ the people's posts you are quoting. They often contain the answers to your questions!!!!

Quote:
because I have seen players crank out 4 lands turn 1 thanks to mana crypt and albeit sol ring, then one of the guild signets.

Your definition of "lands" is deeply, deeply, flawed. 4 mana does NOT equal four lands. And Land, Crypt, Sol Ring, Signet is a once in a lifetime starting hand.

_________________
"Degenerate, unfun decks generally come from degenerate, unfun players in my experience." - Cthulus Thrall

"- if this spell is played ten times in a given game then I suggest you warm up the tar and pluck some chickens" - tarnar

The internet's great at making noise, and poor at operating pants. There's gonna be half-dressed mobs screeching half-assed arguments for the rest of the 21st century - Kemev


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: My Case for a Braids Cabal Minion unbanning
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-16 1:50 pm 

Joined: 2015-Jan-14 2:58 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Quote:
Quote:
because I have seen players crank out 4 lands turn 1 thanks to mana crypt and albeit sol ring, then one of the guild signets.

Your definition of "lands" is deeply, deeply, flawed. 4 mana does NOT equal four lands. And Land, Crypt, Sol Ring, Signet is a once in a lifetime starting hand.

Assuming 38 land, a two color deck can expect this hand at a chance of ~1:3000. Tricolor decks could sea it at ~1:1000, if I've done the math right.

_________________
Deepglow Skate
Antis wrote:
I'm seriously suspicious of any card that makes Doubling Season look fair and reasonable.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: My Case for a Braids Cabal Minion unbanning
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-16 2:56 pm 

Joined: 2013-Aug-20 4:37 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Boston
RaiRai wrote:
Also thank you for the compliment because I would focus more on Braids Sac outlet than for Stax play because seriously, Stax is no fun especially when it comes to Motherbleeping land destruction. Its not really her fault that she is used for Stax play, which we can all agree is shenanigans at times, but thats the players fault.

I've said it before; I built the Braids deck back in my early days of EDH. It was definitely a spike deck, focused on winning through creature attrition. Grave Pact, Stronghold Assassin, Haakon, Brood of Cockroaches, all that kind of thing. That would have been fine, but when you are keeping the board relatively clear, Braids is going to eat up enemy lands. That is simply the way she works. I wasn't even trying to build Stax and I built Stax.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 158 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 19 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: