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 Post subject: Re: Question: Richard Garfield Ph.D
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-23 3:31 am 
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Joined: 2006-Dec-31 12:26 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Yeah, but telling someone to "read the CR" can heavily imply to start at the beginning and read 'till the end. I've done it once, I wouldn't recommend it to anyone.

Changing to say, as you suggest, "reference the CR" -- yes by all means. In fact, online I love using the resource of http://yawgatog.com/resources/magic-rules/ as it's got hyperlinks all over the place and is also searchable as it's just text on a webpage.


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 Post subject: Re: Question: Richard Garfield Ph.D
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-23 3:45 am 

Joined: 2015-Jan-14 2:58 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Carthain wrote:
Yeah, but telling someone to "read the CR" can heavily imply to start at the beginning and read 'till the end. I've done it once, I wouldn't recommend it to anyone.

Changing to say, as you suggest, "reference the CR" -- yes by all means. In fact, online I love using the resource of http://yawgatog.com/resources/magic-rules/ as it's got hyperlinks all over the place and is also searchable as it's just text on a webpage.


I don't disagree, and will probably use that wording next time. I'd never really thought about it before.

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 Post subject: Re: Question: Richard Garfield Ph.D
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-23 3:45 am 
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Joined: 2006-May-18 5:21 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Yeah, there's a big difference between reading the CR and looking stuff up in it occasionally. It's really not designed to be read by anyone who doesn't want to be a serious judge.


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 Post subject: Re: Question: Richard Garfield Ph.D
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-23 5:19 am 

Joined: 2013-Aug-20 4:37 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Boston
papa_funk wrote:
Yeah, there's a big difference between reading the CR and looking stuff up in it occasionally. It's really not designed to be read by anyone who doesn't want to be a serious judge.

You heard it here, fun-loving judges. No need to read the CR!


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 Post subject: Re: Question: Richard Garfield Ph.D
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-23 6:13 am 

Joined: 2012-Mar-31 11:52 am
Age: Elder Dragon
JJackson wrote:
papa_funk wrote:
Yeah, there's a big difference between reading the CR and looking stuff up in it occasionally. It's really not designed to be read by anyone who doesn't want to be a serious judge.

You heard it here, fun-loving judges. No need to read the CR!


The game is so much simpler when you just make up the rules as you go.


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 Post subject: Re: Question: Richard Garfield Ph.D
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-23 6:27 am 
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Joined: 2013-Oct-26 9:21 am
Age: Dragon
Location: Xenia, OH, USA
RaiRai wrote:
Okay then sit down and read Miguel de Cervantes's Don Quixote.


I have, many times. It's actually one of my favorites. And to stay on topic with it, a lot of the suggestions you have bandied about lately have been 'tilting at windmills', so to speak.

Quote:
I've been playing magic for almost a year and not to mention commander as long as standard. I've played against decks that are complete shenanigans, and some that are pretty fair, as well as some oddball ones. Trust me playing in vegas you see a wide diversity of cards, though when you start seeing the same thing over and over again, you get a little ticked.


I'm been playing Magic since the early days (as in since 1993-1994). Granted, I've only played Commander for the last 5 years or so. I've played against, built, and raged at complete shenanigans decks. I've also developed strategies against those kinds of decks. I like to think that all of my current decks (which number at 28 currently assembled, with 4 in planning stages) are fair, because I don't put in all the 'good stuff' cards that I could, because I enjoy the thrill of the playing, not just the winning.

Your local playgroup is NEVER representative of the whole of Commander players, which is why your sweeping rules changes you propose will never work. If you're that concerned about them, suggest to your playgroup to house rule things in.

Perhaps I was a bit harsh in saying read the entire CR and the entire forums, but just stopping and searching those for what you want to ask will yield much better answers and far less scorn from those here on the forums.


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 Post subject: Re: Question: Richard Garfield Ph.D
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-23 7:40 pm 

Joined: 2009-Apr-21 3:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Palm Springs Area, CA
i think this is the least obnoxious of RaiRai's questions... so I declare Richard Garfield PhD legal in commander.

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 Post subject: Re: Question: Richard Garfield Ph.D
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-23 10:49 pm 

Joined: 2013-Aug-20 4:37 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Boston
niheloim wrote:
i think this is the least obnoxious of RaiRai's questions... so I declare Richard Garfield PhD legal in commander.

You've never played against Captain Slowplay doing mental magic, I take it.

And in case he's lurking here: Hi, Kyle!


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 Post subject: Re: Question: Richard Garfield Ph.D
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-24 12:50 am 

Joined: 2011-Sep-30 6:08 am
Age: Elder Dragon
JJackson wrote:
papa_funk wrote:
Yeah, there's a big difference between reading the CR and looking stuff up in it occasionally. It's really not designed to be read by anyone who doesn't want to be a serious judge.

You heard it here, fun-loving judges. No need to read the CR!
I'm fun!

RaiRai wrote:
I've been playing magic for almost a year and not to mention commander as long as standard.
"Almost a year" is a baby in the general Magic population, much less this forum. I, and a lot of the other regulars on this board and the RC, have been playing Magic over 20x longer than that. You really need to understand this. You are a baby. A baby's job is to learn about the world, not to change it.

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 Post subject: Re: Question: Richard Garfield Ph.D
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-24 1:48 am 

Joined: 2012-Mar-31 11:52 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Dude, that's pretty harsh.


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 Post subject: Re: Question: Richard Garfield Ph.D
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-24 2:37 am 
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Joined: 2006-Dec-31 12:26 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
It's harsh -- but, perhaps warranted in RaiRai's case as he's got lots of history here now for him to show that he leaps to conclusions without fully understanding things.

However - new/fresh sets of eyes to inquiry and challenge existing assumptions can be a good thing. But -- learn first, and once you have a good base of knowledge, then if something still seems off that's when you can challenge how things currently work.

RaiRai just seems to completely skip the "learning about things" step which is very annoying.

Contrast to the thread about abilities on commanders in the command zone -- the poster started off asking information instead of just coming out with some conclusion or another that has no basis. It seems like a much friendlier thread than any RaiRai has started here in the rules forum - likely because of that difference.


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 Post subject: Re: Question: Richard Garfield Ph.D
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-24 4:18 am 

Joined: 2011-Sep-30 6:08 am
Age: Elder Dragon
cryogen wrote:
Dude, that's pretty harsh.

I don't think it's harsh at all. RaiRai keeps getting railed on over and over and over again in every single thread he starts. He needs to understand why this is happening.

I'm not telling him to go away or stop starting threads. I'm telling him that his perspective that he is an experienced EDH player with well-considered opinions is objectively way off base. And it's not because he's dumb. It's because he has no context for understanding the format due to the tiny amount time he has been playing relative to almost everyone else here.

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 Post subject: Re: Question: Richard Garfield Ph.D
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-24 7:14 am 

Joined: 2012-Mar-31 11:52 am
Age: Elder Dragon
crokaycete wrote:
cryogen wrote:
Dude, that's pretty harsh.

I don't think it's harsh at all. RaiRai keeps getting railed on over and over and over again in every single thread he starts. He needs to understand why this is happening.

I'm not telling him to go away or stop starting threads. I'm telling him that his perspective that he is an experienced EDH player with well-considered opinions is objectively way off base. And it's not because he's dumb. It's because he has no context for understanding the format due to the tiny amount time he has been playing relative to almost everyone else here.

Yeah, he does keep getting railed on in every thread and it's starting to reach the point where it feels like bullying, or at the very least, belittling with a superiority complex.


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 Post subject: Re: Question: Richard Garfield Ph.D
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-24 7:57 am 

Joined: 2011-Sep-30 6:08 am
Age: Elder Dragon
The problem is the same in every thread. He is approaching some topic where he has not done the most basic research. (e.g., searched gatherer for the card in question and clicked "Sets & Legality.") He doesn't know the rules of Magic. He doesn't know the rules of Commander. He doesn't know the philosophy or history of the format. It's not bullying or belittling to point out this objective fact, especially when he would ask us to "trust [him,] playing in vegas you see a wide diversity of cards." That claim is implicitly based on the fundamentally baseless assertion that he knows what the format at large (outside of Vegas) is like by comparison.

He has shown little or no initiative toward correcting these fundamental deficiencies in his arguments, but persists in acting as if he were an expert when he is a novice. Directly pointing out these deficiencies and suggesting a route to improvement has been done multiple times by multiple people with no apparent effect. We have reached the point where the only appropriate thing to do is to explain what a state of ongoing willful ignorance means. i.e., That until he has reached a basic level of knowledge and experience, his opinions and ideas are unlikely to be meaningful and he shouldn't be surprised if they are treated accordingly.

This is not harsh. This is just plainly stated reality. We have tried being a bit less plain. It was ineffective.

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 Post subject: Re: Question: Richard Garfield Ph.D
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-25 5:30 am 

Joined: 2013-Aug-20 4:37 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Boston
crokaycete wrote:
This is not harsh. This is just plainly stated reality.

I don't think those are mutually exclusive.

Just a reminder, kids, you and everyone you know will one day be dead.


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