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 Post subject: Re: Why are certain cards banned or not banned?
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-27 2:54 am 

Joined: 2009-Apr-21 3:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Palm Springs Area, CA
Jackson wrote:

Quote:
Protean Hulk
Combos aren't even the start of why this guy is better off on the banned list. I'd rather have somebody Flash/Hulk me out with any of the combos he can get than watch somebody who cloned it try to figure out their best value for 6 CMC from their entire deck.
I found the card underwhelming unless going for broke. It wasn't worth the slot in a deck that wasn't making the most of it. And I completely agree with you as for the clone part. I hate waiting for someone to tutor who doesn't really know what to get.

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Quote:
Painter's servant
There are some really nasty hosers to pair with it from back in the day (Lifeforce, Deathgrip, etc.). It isn't just the lock-out combos (though that is a part), there are a fair number of obnoxious uses for it. Personally, I think it is the safest unban on the list, but that is because I think it is sweet paired with Teysa, Orzhov Scion. I may be strange in this regard.
You're not alone. I would love this in Teysa. I would also like to play it with Akroma. I would make a few other cards really interesting (celestial purge, Pentarch Paladin, Pyroblast, etc). I think it should be switched out with Iona.

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Tooth and Nail
I think the distinction between this and Protean Hulk (which is one of the closest ban/unbanned comparisons, IMO) is twofold.

Firstly, when T&N breaks the game, it tends to do so in a way that is obvious. If you're just grabbing a two-creature table kill, you built your deck with that in mind; it is a player issue, not the card. You could be doing something sweet like Vigor+Bloodfire Colossus, which is the kind of high-impact play that is awesome. When Protean Hulk breaks the game, it is by pouring molasses into the gears. It is one of the worst tutor abilities to watch resolve that has ever been printed.

Secondly, PH is a creature, which opens up tons of shenanigans. Cloning, reanimating, Bribery, Sneak Attack, etc that all get it down before it should come down and then keep it coming back instead of staying dead. Couple that with the first difference and I think PH is better off banned. I wouldn't cry over a T&N ban, though, I think it is probably the third or fourth worst card currently legal. (Sol Ring and Iona I think should be banned and Mana Crypt and T&N are the cards I'd shed the fewest tears over.)
Very much so. I love when my son tooth and nails for Pathbreaker Ibex and Inferno Titan in his Maelstrom Wanderer deck. A big splashy play is great. Obnoxious autowins can be dealt with. Slow drawn out shenanigans brought on by a creature based tutor... not so easily.

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 Post subject: Re: Why are certain cards banned or not banned?
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-27 10:06 am 
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Joined: 2010-May-09 10:39 am
Age: Elder Dragon
As far as Moxen and so on are concerned, they'd speed the game up too much and make it untenable.

Library...warble warble warble Tolarian Academy warble.

Academy, speeds up a colour that doesn't need it too much.

The rest of the stuff leafs to undesireable gamestates and so on. I don't really have a problem with the list, but I do think one of Crypt or (Sol) Ring needs to get the heave-ho at some point. House ruling works though.

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Jasmine Boreal - Flower power! Nature/Justice/Retribution themed casual fun.
Radha, Heir to Keld - All white-bordered!
Xantcha, Sleeper Agent - cEDH discard/attrition.
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A Denying Wind.
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Find me Saturdays at the Wizard's Tower - Ottawa and occasional Mondays at Westboro Legion for Duel Commander.


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 Post subject: Re: Why are certain cards banned or not banned?
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-27 10:27 am 

Joined: 2012-Apr-11 7:17 am
Age: Elder Dragon
niheloim wrote:
Obnoxious autowins can be dealt with. Slow drawn out shenanigans brought on by a creature based tutor... not so easily.
Because no cards drag out advantage from the GY until someone nukes the yard right? Pretending Hulk is somehow broken but T+N is 'A OK' is a silly position to me.

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My... history of buying Magic cards is probably a tapestry of bad financial decisions >_>
niheloim wrote:
No, I think he's right. I'm just all butt-hurt over prophet.


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