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 Post subject: Re: *EMN Spoiler* Meld and General rules
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-27 6:36 am 

Joined: 2015-Jan-14 2:58 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
That was quick.

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 Post subject: Re: *EMN Spoiler* Meld and General rules
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-27 7:37 am 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
In case someone doesn't follow the link, the ruling says that if either half is your commander, then the melded card deals commander damage.

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 Post subject: Re: *EMN Spoiler* Meld and General rules
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-27 7:37 am 

Joined: 2009-Apr-21 3:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Palm Springs Area, CA
Spectrar Ghost wrote:
That was quick.

I'm sure he was getting bugged left and right about it. Or maybe he just wanted to head off that storm of nonsense.

I'm a tad let down... I would have liked someone to have argued about it one way or another first.

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 Post subject: Re: *EMN Spoiler* Meld and General rules
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-27 8:00 am 

Joined: 2016-Jun-27 4:50 am
Age: Wyvern
Location: Canada
After seeing the Exile confirmation that half will stay exiled and half go to the Command Zone...well, Brisela just became entirely useless in anything but the most casual groups.

Seriously disappointing...really hope this gets a legit rule that doesn't make them worthless to try to use as Commanders. Going to stay by the suggestion of having them both in the Zone and both accrue tax separately. Exiling Brisela will still hurt badly as it'd cost 4 extra total to try melding them again, but at least it wouldn't be a permanent never-meld-again situation like every game will devolve to.


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 Post subject: Re: *EMN Spoiler* Meld and General rules
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-27 8:14 am 

Joined: 2011-Sep-30 6:08 am
Age: Elder Dragon
FWIW, I would never allow someone to have both halves of Brisela in the command zone. That's just having access to twice as many commanders as everyone else at the table. If you had some "Double Commander" variant where everybody had two commanders (I would also never play that format... one commander is broken enough, but...) then it might be reasonably balanced.

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 Post subject: Re: *EMN Spoiler* Meld and General rules
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-27 8:17 am 

Joined: 2011-Aug-18 3:35 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Kaltovei wrote:
After seeing the Exile confirmation that half will stay exiled and half go to the Command Zone...well, Brisela just became entirely useless in anything but the most casual groups.

Seriously disappointing...really hope this gets a legit rule that doesn't make them worthless to try to use as Commanders. Going to stay by the suggestion of having them both in the Zone and both accrue tax separately. Exiling Brisela will still hurt badly as it'd cost 4 extra total to try melding them again, but at least it wouldn't be a permanent never-meld-again situation like every game will devolve to.


Sacrifice outlets...
Pull from Eternity...

Once these flip they stop just about every played piece of targeted removal...

There are plenty of extremely relevant pieces that you're "screwed" if they get exiled. Those pieces are still played because people know how to protect their stuff.


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 Post subject: Re: *EMN Spoiler* Meld and General rules
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-27 8:34 am 

Joined: 2016-Jun-27 4:50 am
Age: Wyvern
Location: Canada
That's the thing though, they're balanced around being one creature melded. Having access to just one of them might as well be having access to half of a regular commander. They still cost 11 mana to cast and meld in the first place, it's not like they're 3 mana each or something.

Even a rule that let the second half of the meld go back into the library instead of stay in exile would be fine. Just something to prevent them from never being able to meld again...that's just pure unfun with how easy and plentiful exile is. You literally 2 for 1 yourself and then might as well not have a commander for the rest of the game if you meld Brisela in any match that isn't full of potatoes, so what would be the point of playing them at all?

Sure you can use Pull From Eternity...one card out of 100. You're also playing mono-white so sac outlets are pretty limited (artifacts which are also easy to exile/destroy), you have no real way of giving hexproof besides equipment (exile half before equip resolves), no counterspells, etc. I'm not saying they should be unstoppable, because they'd still be easy to disrupt with targeted removal and counters and such before they meld. It's how easy the PERMANENT prevention of melding again is that's the problem.


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 Post subject: Re: *EMN Spoiler* Meld and General rules
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-27 9:00 am 

Joined: 2011-Aug-18 3:35 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
They don't make rules for convenience. You try to cast Phage from the command zone, you'll lose the game. You can't cast Haakon from the command zone. You can still use them if you want to jump through hoops.

If you want to run "Brisela", YOU jump through the hoops to ensure they're available and YOU take the risks of losing access to the "best" version of them. Don't ask the RC to make it easy mode for you.

Why don't we just ask them to make a rule where your general can't be removed from play and can be cast for free as of CMC = turn so there's no bad feelings from mana screw.


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 Post subject: Re: *EMN Spoiler* Meld and General rules
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-27 9:17 am 

Joined: 2016-Jun-27 4:50 am
Age: Wyvern
Location: Canada
If by "take risks" you mean "never get to cast/use in any game ever"...sure?

WotC literally made Command Beacon to make Phage and Haakon more playable. There are multiple ways to use them as people have been for a while even before that was printed.

Brisela will NEVER be playable (besides people afking and letting you meld them). That's the point. There will be nothing you can do to make them playable outside a rule change. Absolutely nothing. One removal that every member of the table will likely have and you no longer have your commander, ever. How is that fun in any way for anyone?


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 Post subject: Re: *EMN Spoiler* Meld and General rules
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-27 9:21 am 
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Joined: 2010-Jul-18 9:59 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Kaltovei wrote:
If by "take risks" you mean "never get to cast/use in any game ever"...sure?

WotC literally made Command Beacon to make Phage and Haakon more playable. There are multiple ways to use them as people have been for a while even before that was printed.

Brisela will NEVER be playable (besides people afking and letting you meld them). That's the point. There will be nothing you can do to make them playable outside a rule change. Absolutely nothing. One removal that every member of the table will likely have and you no longer have your commander, ever. How is that fun in any way for anyone?

I..... don't see how that can happen. Someone enlighten me?

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 Post subject: Re: *EMN Spoiler* Meld and General rules
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-27 9:24 am 

Joined: 2016-Jun-27 4:50 am
Age: Wyvern
Location: Canada
Viperion wrote:
Kaltovei wrote:
If by "take risks" you mean "never get to cast/use in any game ever"...sure?

WotC literally made Command Beacon to make Phage and Haakon more playable. There are multiple ways to use them as people have been for a while even before that was printed.

Brisela will NEVER be playable (besides people afking and letting you meld them). That's the point. There will be nothing you can do to make them playable outside a rule change. Absolutely nothing. One removal that every member of the table will likely have and you no longer have your commander, ever. How is that fun in any way for anyone?

I..... don't see how that can happen. Someone enlighten me?


Whichever one you don't have as the Commander gets exiled. You can now never attempt to meld them again that game. Fun, right?


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 Post subject: Re: *EMN Spoiler* Meld and General rules
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-27 9:27 am 
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Joined: 2010-Jul-18 9:59 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Kaltovei wrote:
Viperion wrote:
Kaltovei wrote:
Brisela will NEVER be playable (besides people afking and letting you meld them). That's the point. There will be nothing you can do to make them playable outside a rule change. Absolutely nothing. One removal that every member of the table will likely have and you no longer have your commander, ever. How is that fun in any way for anyone?

I..... don't see how that can happen. Someone enlighten me?


Whichever one you don't have as the Commander gets exiled. You can now never attempt to meld them again that game. Fun, right?

That's not what you said (relevant portion highlighted).

Exiling problem creatures as a way to deal with them is not new to the format. You'll still have whichever half of the meld you chose as your Commander. Like everything else, you need to pick your time to do The Great Big Thing(tm), lest someone else Mess With It(tm).

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The internet's great at making noise, and poor at operating pants. There's gonna be half-dressed mobs screeching half-assed arguments for the rest of the 21st century - Kemev


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 Post subject: Re: *EMN Spoiler* Meld and General rules
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-27 9:34 am 

Joined: 2016-Jun-27 4:50 am
Age: Wyvern
Location: Canada
Viperion wrote:
That's not what you said (relevant portion highlighted).

Exiling problem creatures as a way to deal with them is not new to the format. You'll still have whichever half of the meld you chose as your Commander. Like everything else, you need to pick your time to do The Great Big Thing(tm), lest someone else Mess With It(tm).


Why play either one of them if they can't meld? They're ment to be two halves of a whole...that's like playing Arcum or something and not playing any artifacts. Difference between exiling other problem commanders and these two is Brisela gets neutered permanently while others keep their abilities. How would it feel if say...Animar got exiled, and then if you went to recast him he lost his cost reduction ability? Pretty much what happens here.


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 Post subject: Re: *EMN Spoiler* Meld and General rules
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-27 9:52 am 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
Epsilon wrote:
Kaltovei wrote:
After seeing the Exile confirmation that half will stay exiled and half go to the Command Zone...well, Brisela just became entirely useless in anything but the most casual groups.

Seriously disappointing...really hope this gets a legit rule that doesn't make them worthless to try to use as Commanders. Going to stay by the suggestion of having them both in the Zone and both accrue tax separately. Exiling Brisela will still hurt badly as it'd cost 4 extra total to try melding them again, but at least it wouldn't be a permanent never-meld-again situation like every game will devolve to.


Sacrifice outlets...

Sacrifice outlets don't work unless the current wording on the card is incorrect. Gisela's meld ability has an intervening if, meaning they both have to be on the field while the ability is being resolved for it to resolve at all.

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 Post subject: Re: *EMN Spoiler* Meld and General rules
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-27 9:54 am 
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Joined: 2006-Dec-31 12:26 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Isn't Brisela the flip-side of the card? How can you name that as being your commander?

You'd have to have Bruna or Gisella as your commander, and the other in your 99. Then if you do meld them, then the melded version is also your commander (as it's the same card -- you'd just flip it over).

Then, if it does, you still have Bruna or Gisella as your commander -- even if the other one remains in exile.


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