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 Post subject: Re: *EMN Spoiler* Meld and General rules
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-27 9:54 am 

Joined: 2012-Apr-11 7:17 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Kaltovei wrote:
Brisela will NEVER be playable (besides people afking and letting you meld them). That's the point. There will be nothing you can do to make them playable outside a rule change. Absolutely nothing. One removal that every member of the table will likely have and you no longer have your commander, ever. How is that fun in any way for anyone?
Good to see we have not devolved in hyperbole...

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 Post subject: Re: *EMN Spoiler* Meld and General rules
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-27 10:00 am 

Joined: 2016-Jun-27 4:50 am
Age: Wyvern
Location: Canada
Carthain wrote:
Isn't Brisela the flip-side of the card? How can you name that as being your commander?

You'd have to have Bruna or Gisella as your commander, and the other in your 99. Then if you do meld them, then the melded version is also your commander (as it's the same card -- you'd just flip it over).

Then, if it does, you still have Bruna or Gisella as your commander -- even if the other one remains in exile.


Yeah, I just refer to them as Brisela because it's easier than typing both names a billion times. Currently one would be the Commander yeah, but why bother if they only get half of their abilities. Guaranteed the non-Commander half gets exiled, so you might as well pick a Commander that actually does something instead.

Seems like an extremely poorly thought out mechanic, at least for Commander. That's why I've been saying it's so disappointing they didn't realize how unfun and pointless the meld would be in Commander...they didn't even try to make it usable.


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 Post subject: Re: *EMN Spoiler* Meld and General rules
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-27 10:04 am 
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Joined: 2010-Jul-18 9:59 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
MRHblue wrote:
Kaltovei wrote:
Brisela will NEVER be playable (besides people afking and letting you meld them). That's the point. There will be nothing you can do to make them playable outside a rule change. Absolutely nothing. One removal that every member of the table will likely have and you no longer have your commander, ever. How is that fun in any way for anyone?
Good to see we have not devolved in hyperbole...

I see their forum "age" is Hatchling, I'm cutting them a bit of slack based on that ;)

Kaltovei; as Carthain said, Brisela isn't your Commander (as much as it would be cool). Gisela or (IMO, more likely) Bruna is your commander. As I said in my previous reply, part of doing the Big Important Thing(tm) - in this case melding the two angels - has to be timed so as to avoid shenanigans from your opponent. This has been, is, and always will be true. If someone exiles your non-Commander half of Brisela that sucks, but either of those two are pretty good as creatures themselves (Bruna more than Gisela, IMO, but YMMV). This is no different to someone exiling your Deadeye Navigator with the Soulbound trigger on the stack, or exiling your Omniscience, or your Psychosis Crawler, or anything else.

(You replied while I was typing this; here's my response):
Quote:
you might as well pick a Commander that actually does something instead.
Read the cards individually. Bruna is a HOUSE, and Gisela is a really good aggressively costed flying beater. They're not bad pre-meld.

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 Post subject: Re: *EMN Spoiler* Meld and General rules
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-27 10:11 am 
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Joined: 2006-Dec-31 12:26 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Kaltovei wrote:
Yeah, I just refer to them as Brisela because it's easier than typing both names a billion times. Currently one would be the Commander yeah, but why bother if they only get half of their abilities. Guaranteed the non-Commander half gets exiled, so you might as well pick a Commander that actually does something instead.

Only half of their abilities? You know they're perfectly playable as commanders without the meld ability right?

5/7 Flying, Vigilance + ETB: Limited Raise Dead for 7 isn't great, but not horrible either (recursion in mono-white isn't *that* common)
4/3 Flying, first strike, lifelink for 4 is pretty solid.

That you think that you're only getting half the abilities is just the wrong mindset. You get their full abilities -- but then have the potential opportunity for even more abilities.

I don't see that as being much different than playing The Mimeoplasm. Sometimes it just does nothing because people keep the graveyards clean of stuff it can use. It's a potential risk, for a potential big upside.

Kaltovei wrote:
they didn't even try to make it usable [in Commander].

So.... just means that those cards aren't intended for Commander. Not every legendary creature is designed for commander you know... To think that it should be seems to be pretty full of hubris.

There certainly are some legendary creatures designed for commander ... but that's far away from saying every one of them should be.


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 Post subject: Re: *EMN Spoiler* Meld and General rules
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-27 10:14 am 
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Joined: 2009-Jun-12 7:46 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Kaltovei wrote:
Seems like an extremely poorly thought out mechanic, at least for Commander. That's why I've been saying it's so disappointing they didn't realize how unfun and pointless the meld would be in Commander...they didn't even try to make it usable.

They made three meld cards (three pairs). I don't think they were trying to do a lot with the mechanic in the first place.

Actually, when you think about it, given how few cards they made, this mechanic works perfectly fine with Commander as printed, which is better than say for Phage the Untouchable. I think they showed that they put some thought into how it would work for Commander, but that they weren't tuning it to ensure that it was a highly desirable commander in the format. Not every card is made for every format.

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 Post subject: Re: *EMN Spoiler* Meld and General rules
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-27 10:27 am 

Joined: 2016-Jun-27 4:50 am
Age: Wyvern
Location: Canada
Viperion wrote:
MRHblue wrote:
Kaltovei wrote:
Brisela will NEVER be playable (besides people afking and letting you meld them). That's the point. There will be nothing you can do to make them playable outside a rule change. Absolutely nothing. One removal that every member of the table will likely have and you no longer have your commander, ever. How is that fun in any way for anyone?
Good to see we have not devolved in hyperbole...

I see their forum "age" is Hatchling, I'm cutting them a bit of slack based on that ;)

Kaltovei; as Carthain said, Brisela isn't your Commander (as much as it would be cool). Gisela or (IMO, more likely) Bruna is your commander. As I said in my previous reply, part of doing the Big Important Thing(tm) - in this case melding the two angels - has to be timed so as to avoid shenanigans from your opponent. This has been, is, and always will be true. If someone exiles your non-Commander half of Brisela that sucks, but either of those two are pretty good as creatures themselves (Bruna more than Gisela, IMO, but YMMV). This is no different to someone exiling your Deadeye Navigator with the Soulbound trigger on the stack, or exiling your Omniscience, or your Psychosis Crawler, or anything else.

(You replied while I was typing this; here's my response):
Quote:
you might as well pick a Commander that actually does something instead.
Read the cards individually. Bruna is a HOUSE, and Gisela is a really good aggressively costed flying beater. They're not bad pre-meld.


People can lurk you know, I've played MTG for years but never made forum accounts until now. Mainly because this has me really salty as my most anticipated duo in years is so disappointing mechanically for the format I play most. I apologize for all this ranting lol

Bruna is 7 mana (and hard to protect when she gets on the field, being mono-white), and has a very specific recursion clause. As much as I want to like her (Original Bruna is my second favorite card in all of MTG), you can get recursion from so many other things and not be limited by type. You can't even abuse her because it's on cast and not ETB. Gisela is good for the cost, but the abilities are so generic you might as well play Boros.

I'll admit they didn't entirely ignore Commander when making the card...the 3CMC prevention clause on the meld side does dodge a lot of exile that would be thrown at the meld if magical christmasland does happen. At least they'll be a lot of fun in the 99 in various decks since then it doesn't really matter as much if they get exiled, you still have another actual commander.


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 Post subject: Re: *EMN Spoiler* Meld and General rules
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-27 10:28 am 

Joined: 2012-Apr-11 7:17 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Kaltovei wrote:
Currently one would be the Commander yeah, but why bother if they only get half of their abilities. Guaranteed the non-Commander half gets exiled, so you might as well pick a Commander that actually does something instead.
Both cards are good. Lots of cards in the 99 are great with your commander, that does not mean your commander suddenly sucks if ONE gets exiled.

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sir squab wrote:
My... history of buying Magic cards is probably a tapestry of bad financial decisions >_>
niheloim wrote:
No, I think he's right. I'm just all butt-hurt over prophet.


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 Post subject: Re: *EMN Spoiler* Meld and General rules
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-27 10:52 am 
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Joined: 2006-Dec-31 12:26 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Kaltovei wrote:
Bruna is 7 mana (and hard to protect when she gets on the field, being mono-white), and has a very specific recursion clause. As much as I want to like her (Original Bruna is my second favorite card in all of MTG), you can get recursion from so many other things and not be limited by type. You can't even abuse her because it's on cast and not ETB. Gisela is good for the cost, but the abilities are so generic you might as well play Boros.

And that is your opinion. Other people may find that is what they want. Bruna may have limited recursion, but it's also very flavorful -- humans & angels working together. Something they've previously had in Innistrad. Just because you don't appreciate the flavor of the card, doesn't mean that nobody will. This format is played by a wide variety of players.


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 Post subject: Re: *EMN Spoiler* Meld and General rules
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-27 11:04 am 

Joined: 2016-Jun-27 4:50 am
Age: Wyvern
Location: Canada
Carthain wrote:
Kaltovei wrote:
Bruna is 7 mana (and hard to protect when she gets on the field, being mono-white), and has a very specific recursion clause. As much as I want to like her (Original Bruna is my second favorite card in all of MTG), you can get recursion from so many other things and not be limited by type. You can't even abuse her because it's on cast and not ETB. Gisela is good for the cost, but the abilities are so generic you might as well play Boros.

And that is your opinion. Other people may find that is what they want. Bruna may have limited recursion, but it's also very flavorful -- humans & angels working together. Something they've previously had in Innistrad. Just because you don't appreciate the flavor of the card, doesn't mean that nobody will. This format is played by a wide variety of players.


That exact reason is why I'm thinking of making a Sigarda deck with all of the sisters and a bunch of humans. Having all of them together in one deck and being able to have one of them still be the commander is really cool, and that definitely makes me appreciate that they made Brisela mono-white in stead of Jeskai/Izzet.

I may be extremely salty about not being able to use them as the Commander itself in the way I hoped, but you can be damn sure I'm shoving them into a lot of 99s lol. I love the sisters and having the option to put them all together with an Angel at the helm is really awesome, even if it is the corrupted versions of Bruna and Gisela.


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 Post subject: Re: *EMN Spoiler* Meld and General rules
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-27 11:26 am 
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Joined: 2010-Jul-18 9:59 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Kaltovei wrote:
Viperion wrote:
I see their forum "age" is Hatchling, I'm cutting them a bit of slack based on that ;)
People can lurk you know, I've played MTG for years but never made forum accounts until now. Mainly because this has me really salty as my most anticipated duo in years is so disappointing mechanically for the format I play most. I apologize for all this ranting lol

If you'd been lurking for long you'd know what sort of response opinion stated as fact ("Brisela will NEVER be playable") gets around here ;)

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"- if this spell is played ten times in a given game then I suggest you warm up the tar and pluck some chickens" - tarnar

The internet's great at making noise, and poor at operating pants. There's gonna be half-dressed mobs screeching half-assed arguments for the rest of the 21st century - Kemev


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 Post subject: Re: *EMN Spoiler* Meld and General rules
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-27 11:33 am 

Joined: 2016-Jun-27 4:50 am
Age: Wyvern
Location: Canada
Viperion wrote:
Kaltovei wrote:
Viperion wrote:
I see their forum "age" is Hatchling, I'm cutting them a bit of slack based on that ;)
People can lurk you know, I've played MTG for years but never made forum accounts until now. Mainly because this has me really salty as my most anticipated duo in years is so disappointing mechanically for the format I play most. I apologize for all this ranting lol

If you'd been lurking for long you'd know what sort of response opinion stated as fact ("Brisela will NEVER be playable") gets around here ;)


Well, you have to admit, the flipped side will never be playable in anything remotely competitive. That isn't really an opinion. Not every card is made to be competitive though, and this mechanic by design definitely never will be in a mono-colour without counterspells.

Honestly, I find casual play more fun most of the time anyway. Competitive can be a fun battle of wits or whatever, but it generally boils down to the same patterns and is tedious after a while.

I think I'm most looking forward to trying them out in a Karador deck, or a Jenara deck that is purely Bant Angels.


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 Post subject: Re: *EMN Spoiler* Meld and General rules
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-27 12:57 pm 

Joined: 2013-Aug-20 4:37 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Boston
Kaltovei wrote:
Well, you have to admit, the flipped side will never be playable in anything remotely competitive.

That's true for almost all legends they print.

That's off topic, though. When it comes down to it, I think you're really underestimating how well Brisela protects herselves from exile effects. Here is a full list of things that I wouldn't be embarrassed to run that can get her after they've melded: Gild, Sever the Bloodline, Duplicant, Phyrexian Ingester, Utter End, Archon of Justice, Ashen Rider, Karn Liberated, Angel of the Dire Hour, Descend upon the Sinful, Final Judgment, Merciless Eviction, Perilous Vault, and Containment Priest (in response to the trigger).

Sure, someone might Swords to Plowshares whichever one isn't your commander if you just run it out there instead of choosing your spot, but that is on you for being reckless.


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 Post subject: Re: *EMN Spoiler* Meld and General rules
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-27 4:42 pm 
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Joined: 2016-May-16 12:03 pm
Age: Dragon
Location: The Blind Eternities
Why not just allow them to be a double commander to form Brisela because they can't meld that quickly and mana ramping in white is tricky alone.

Now what I be more worried a out is the fact that they are printing more colorless eldrazi that are comming equipped with emerge which basically turns any creature into its lunch and cannon fodder for casting. I could imagine a bant color deck stealing an opponent's creatures then using them to cast an eldrazi with emerge. Not to mention their mana cost would be offset by Eye of Ugin and Eldrazi temple so effectively making eldrazi in eldritch moon the cheapest to play in commander

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 Post subject: Re: *EMN Spoiler* Meld and General rules
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-27 9:07 pm 

Joined: 2016-Feb-13 2:14 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Orlando, Florida
Emerge looks like a shit mechanic so far, unless you care about killing your own creatures. And mentioning two lands in commander doesn't make an archetype broken, RaiRai.

As far as Brisela is concerned, play Bruna as the commander, and put Gisela in the 99. That's what I'm doing. Bruna is powerful enough on her own to warrant a commander slot. Complaining that you can't use both is the same as Brothers Yamazaki, but the difference here is these two angels are good without the other.


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 Post subject: Re: *EMN Spoiler* Meld and General rules
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-27 9:17 pm 

Joined: 2015-Apr-23 11:27 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Antwerp, Belgium
Considering playability, I actually like it, despite a general distaste for Eldrazi. Both girls are playable as commander, with a slight nod to Bruna, and with one of them as commander, the other one is an auto include just for the chance of the meld.

Also, soooo glad Brisela has vigilance, it'd be super annoying tapping that ('tapping that' as in turning sideways, the other being even less satisfying I imagine). If we ever see Brisela showing up around here, it's gonna be the ultimate 'tap target creature' target. I think I'll put a print of it in my box to break out when I have a meld thing going on, or cut a large sleeve out of a binder sheet or something.

"Eldrazi Angel"... listing how 'walkers screwed over a plane, Nahiri's job is pretty high up. :(


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