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MTG Commander/Elder Dragon Highlander • View topic - The Reserved List and Commander?

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 Post subject: The Reserved List and Commander?
AgePosted: 2016-Jul-07 4:07 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Dec-26 12:12 am
Age: Wyvern
In the past two weeks, the Reversed List has been roiled by buy outs, and now the prospect of Martin Shkreli entering the game to invest in the Reserved List has brought the issue to a head once again. What does that mean for Commander? I'm not sure, but it's something that I believe the Commander community should be discussing because a potential buy out of the Reserve List (and not necessarily by Shkreli or another rich person but by a panicked Magic community wanting to get the cards before they're bought up by someone else) could have an impact on the format just as much as it will on Legacy and Vintage.

Thoughts? Ideas?


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 Post subject: Re: The Reserved List and Commander?
AgePosted: 2016-Jul-08 12:14 am 
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Joined: 2006-May-18 5:21 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
It probably doesn't mean anything.

Commander (unless you're taking it very seriously, at which point you're kind of out on your own limb) isn't so punishing that you need the optimal deck. Running a shockland instead of a dual is just fine.


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 Post subject: Re: The Reserved List and Commander?
AgePosted: 2016-Jul-08 12:37 am 

Joined: 2011-Sep-30 6:08 am
Age: Elder Dragon
I am the owner of numerous duals. I don't run them in commander. In all the games I've played, I think running shocks instead of duals AND shocks has materially impacted me literally one time. (I had already fetched my Shock of the color combination I wanted.)


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 Post subject: Re: The Reserved List and Commander?
AgePosted: 2016-Jul-08 5:32 am 
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Joined: 2006-Dec-31 12:26 pm
Age: Elder Dragon


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 Post subject: Re: The Reserved List and Commander?
AgePosted: 2016-Jul-08 6:11 am 

Joined: 2013-Aug-20 4:37 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Boston


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 Post subject: Re: The Reserved List and Commander?
AgePosted: 2016-Jul-08 7:12 am 

Joined: 2014-Sep-13 7:28 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Duals are no the only thing on the reserve list. However, most of the reserve list stuff is scarcely 'necessary' to most play.

I have stuff like Moat that was recently bought out, but my general impression is that the cutoff of players being priced out of Moat at $600 is minimally different from the players who were priced out of Moat at $200. Something like that barely matters, to me, because you don't really need Moat. It's just really freaking good, but it's not a format where you need that like you need it in Vintage vs Eldrazi.

As commander players, what conversation exactly are we to be having? I don't see any of affecting the format.

Maybe the Library buy out means now it really never will be unbanned.

Other stuff like City/LED is not ubiquitous/perceived ubiquitous, even though it can go in any deck, so the price increase undoubtedly is not cause to be concerned for a ban.

Certainly none of this is going to cause an unban, i presume.

So i think effects are nil except for those were about to buy a Moat for control (even though it's a luxury item not a need item) or an LED for storm (i deck i have actually only seen once and presume is not at all popular).

It's mostly just frustration because we all wish we had the bankroll to buy all the stuff we want, or at least the foreknowledge to pick up specs/needs before they boom. Or it is for me, anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: The Reserved List and Commander?
AgePosted: 2016-Jul-08 3:21 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: The Reserved List and Commander?
AgePosted: 2016-Jul-09 2:30 am 

Joined: 2014-Sep-13 7:28 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Not necessary and not played are two whole different things for sure, but of all the reserve list cards used in the format the vast majority in my experience has been Duals, Grim Monolith, Mana Vault, and Survival of the Fittest (and Cradle if it were cheap). Off the top of my head right this second, i don't even know of any others. Stuff like Moat, Tabernacle, Workshop, Candelabra, Guardian Beast, both Diamonds, and City of Traitors, are not for everyone or for every deck.

Duals have replacements, and honestly unless it's 5c, fetches are way more important that having ABUR duals when you have the Rav and Zen duals already.
Vault and Monolith have very subpar replacements, but they do have them.
Queen is sort of a shame, but she has replacements too (and i usually hear is better since he tutors all others, including queen).
Not a terrible amount of playable legends from Legends, and some were even in Chronicles anyway. It's basically Angus, Adun and Tetsuo, i think? (arguable, Tetsuo is not even playable an was strictly the Tiny Leaders nonsense).

We should remember though, that while the RL does contain a lot of OP cards, playable RL cards make up a small portion of the card pool.

Psychological impacts are always imminent. There are an awful lot of people crying the sky is falling because Shkreli wants to collect magic cards. It can't be avoided, really. I think the format as a whole is actually fine though.


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 Post subject: Re: The Reserved List and Commander?
AgePosted: 2016-Jul-09 4:23 am 

Joined: 2009-Jul-02 4:25 pm
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 Post subject: Re: The Reserved List and Commander?
AgePosted: 2016-Jul-11 8:59 am 

Joined: 2008-Jan-25 8:26 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Calgary

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"(P)art of the joy of Commander (is) being forced to work with what we (have), even if it (isn't) optimal. Optimal usually isn't that interesting." - papa funk


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 Post subject: Re: The Reserved List and Commander?
AgePosted: 2016-Jul-11 12:01 pm 

Joined: 2009-Apr-21 3:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Palm Springs Area, CA
I personally think the reserve list could go away without any real issues. player perception is the big problem- no one wants to think wizards is greedy or a bunch of liars, and the reserve list helps keep those accusations at bay.

However, if the policy ever starts to impact EDH like it has vintage and legacy, I suspect we might all of us change our tunes.

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 Post subject: Re: The Reserved List and Commander?
AgePosted: 2016-Jul-11 12:04 pm 

Joined: 2009-Apr-21 3:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Palm Springs Area, CA

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 Post subject: Re: The Reserved List and Commander?
AgePosted: 2016-Jul-11 12:31 pm 

Joined: 2014-Sep-13 7:28 am
Age: Elder Dragon


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 Post subject: Re: The Reserved List and Commander?
AgePosted: 2016-Jul-11 2:41 pm 

Joined: 2014-Jul-26 11:35 am
Age: Elder Dragon
So far it has only been stuff like Moat and LED. Some people are suggesting that dual lands could be in the firing line and some people have already begun pre-buying them to not get caught out.

Im not too worried about those, as stated above, dual lands and super powerful cards aren't really required for commander. What I am really worried about is, what will we do if they come for our ? Sure it's only 50c now, but who knows what could happen if Skreli goes all in on a buy out.

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 Post subject: Re: The Reserved List and Commander?
AgePosted: 2016-Jul-11 6:01 pm 

Joined: 2015-Apr-23 11:27 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Antwerp, Belgium
I started buying RL cards last year. Not to speculate, just cards I could use like duals. I'm not a wealthy heir of the family fortune and estates, and have a wife and kids, so I can't afford to splash money on every single card I would like.

But for duals, I made an exception, because I'm hoping that they will keep their value. If for some reason I will ever need money so badly that I need to sell cards, I trust I'll at least get my money back for them. Also it's a nice long term project, every now and then when I come into some extra cash from doing extra hours or something, I can reward myself with a dual. I got 4 of them now, 6 to go.

I'm more annoyed at Standard and modern pushing prices for cards I like than Vintage. I mean, there are a couple of cards on the RL I'd like (Duals, , , , maybe a couple more), but I could very well do without. You really don't need RL cards to play commander, but if you only have been playing magic for the last 5 years, offcourse your card pool will severely limit your options.

I hate it when new sets arrive, and there are very nice cards I can't wait to play with, but you have to wait untill the new set excitement calmes down. I did a quick check yesterday, on cardmarket.eu the most expensive card in BFZ is , at about 12€ (15$?). After that, it's a pretty big dropoff, with only 3 more cards in the 2€-5€ range. All BFZ duals you can pick up at about 1,50€ a piece. You could save 70, 80% on the purchase of the cards you like in a new set by waiting a year.

That price bubble bugs me more than RL spikes. I think the buyout hysteria will soon settle down, and in time the RL market will partially fix itself. For thing like LED it's too late, they'll never become the same price as they were 5 years ago, but many other stuff sees spikes now because of fear for buyouts, not actual buyouts. The impact on commander however will be marginal I think, new players will have less oppportunity to pick op old goodies, but will find enough support in the commander expansions to quickly be able to put their foot next to all but the most powerfull decks.


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