Login | Register


All times are UTC - 7 hours


It is currently 2019-Jul-17 12:34 am




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 49 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Should we ban Fast Fetchlands?
AgePosted: 2016-Aug-30 6:21 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2016-May-16 12:03 pm
Age: Dragon
Location: The Blind Eternities
Okay, Not to be the crass one but recalling a conversation I had with several other players a long time ago when a discussion of lands came up, the topic of banning fast fetchlands arose out of it. While granted, I'm on the fence about this considering fast fetch lands are the more desired lands in any format, one of my Arizona playgroup attempted to make a point that they aren't Condusive to EDH. I would like th opportunity to discuss this:

The points he tried making:

1. The enable games to end earlier than they should, which to be fair seems a little farfetched but I've seen quite few games come to a close a turn or two earlier when they are in play, enabling them play certain spells quicker.

2. They are designed primarily for modern and standard, now this Point I somewhat agree with considering due to their high demand in standard and Modern and how many professional decks out there play them with fervency in order to win. But to a degree I digress since Fast fetches have been around for quite some.

3. They go against the EDH philosopy, another questionable point but as far as costs are concerned, they are the twice price of Kaalia herself in most cases.

_________________
Image

RaiRai's Decks of Otherworldlyness:

Unknown Horizons
Bane of the Vast 1.0
Call from Eternity
Twisted Nightmares


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Should we ban Fast Fetchlands?
AgePosted: 2016-Aug-30 6:28 am 

Joined: 2009-Apr-21 3:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Palm Springs Area, CA
I call shenanigans.

_________________
3DH4L1F3


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Should we ban Fast Fetchlands?
AgePosted: 2016-Aug-30 6:36 am 

Joined: 2015-Jan-14 2:58 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
RaiRai wrote:
Okay, Not to be the crass one but recalling a conversation I had with several other players a long time ago when a discussion of lands came up, the topic of banning fast fetchlands arose out of it. While granted, I'm on the fence about this considering fast fetch lands are the more desired lands in any format, one of my Arizona playgroup attempted to make a point that they aren't Condusive to EDH. I would like th opportunity to discuss this:

The points he tried making:

1. The enable games to end earlier than they should, which to be fair seems a little farfetched but I've seen quite few games come to a close a turn or two earlier when they are in play, enabling them play certain spells quicker.

2. They are designed primarily for modern and standard, now this Point I somewhat agree with considering due to their high demand in standard and Modern and how many professional decks out there play them with fervency in order to win. But to a degree I digress since Fast fetches have been around for quite some.

3. They go against the EDH philosopy, another questionable point but as far as costs are concerned, they are the twice price of Kaalia herself in most cases.


I'd be interested to hear the reasoning he had for any of these assertions.

1) They fix, but don't ramp. While they're nice to have, there's no EDH manabase that requires them.

2) The first fetches were printed before there was a modern. In fact they were printed before the oldest cards legal in modern.

3) I can't see how. Do you know his reasoning?

_________________
Deepglow Skate
Antis wrote:
I'm seriously suspicious of any card that makes Doubling Season look fair and reasonable.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Should we ban Fast Fetchlands?
AgePosted: 2016-Aug-30 6:43 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2009-Mar-31 8:25 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Zealand
RaiRai

I think with your infinite wisdom you should start a RaiRai's daily Commander facts and strategies post.

But don't just post it. Make sure to PM people as well. They'll appreciate it more.

Just don't forget to include a unsuscribe button that doesn't work.

_________________
Xenagos, God of Revels
Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Should we ban Fast Fetchlands?
AgePosted: 2016-Aug-30 6:49 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2014-Jul-28 8:30 am
Age: Dragon
What, pray tell, are "fast fetchlands"? Do you mean the cycle of lands to which cards like Verdant Catacombs belong? Those are just called fetchlands.

_________________
specter404 wrote:
Basically, when it comes to commander, I want you to stab me through the heart, not cut off my balls.

Gath Immortal wrote:
Twenty Kavus and a Dream is not a legacy deck.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Should we ban Fast Fetchlands?
AgePosted: 2016-Aug-30 6:52 am 

Joined: 2016-Feb-13 2:14 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Orlando, Florida
Short answer: no.

Long answer: noooooooooooooo.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Should we ban Fast Fetchlands?
AgePosted: 2016-Aug-30 6:52 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2016-May-16 12:03 pm
Age: Dragon
Location: The Blind Eternities
Spectrar Ghost wrote:
RaiRai wrote:
Okay, Not to be the crass one but recalling a conversation I had with several other players a long time ago when a discussion of lands came up, the topic of banning fast fetchlands arose out of it. While granted, I'm on the fence about this considering fast fetch lands are the more desired lands in any format, one of my Arizona playgroup attempted to make a point that they aren't Condusive to EDH. I would like th opportunity to discuss this:

The points he tried making:

1. The enable games to end earlier than they should, which to be fair seems a little farfetched but I've seen quite few games come to a close a turn or two earlier when they are in play, enabling them play certain spells quicker.

2. They are designed primarily for modern and standard, now this Point I somewhat agree with considering due to their high demand in standard and Modern and how many professional decks out there play them with fervency in order to win. But to a degree I digress since Fast fetches have been around for quite some.

3. They go against the EDH philosopy, another questionable point but as far as costs are concerned, they are the twice price of Kaalia herself in most cases.


I'd be interested to hear the reasoning he had for any of these assertions.

1) They fix, but don't ramp. While they're nice to have, there's no EDH manabase that requires them.

2) The first fetches were printed before there was a modern. In fact they were printed before the oldest cards legal in modern.

3) I can't see how. Do you know his reasoning?


I have no idea

_________________
Image

RaiRai's Decks of Otherworldlyness:

Unknown Horizons
Bane of the Vast 1.0
Call from Eternity
Twisted Nightmares


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Should we ban Fast Fetchlands?
AgePosted: 2016-Aug-30 7:16 am 

Joined: 2014-Sep-13 7:28 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Why would he want to ban mana fixing lands? Why would he want to force everyone to use bad lands (not Badlands, which is actually pretty okay)? What is wrong with having the right colors at the right time? Why would the format be better if people weren't able to cast their spells as desired?

They're not for standard or modern. How he can even think that (though it's secretly you) is beyond me. As was pointed out, Modern wasn't even a format when they were concepted. In Standard they rotate.

In what way is Kaalia's price REMOTELY relevant to fetchlands being legal? That you bring up Kaalia reinforces these were your musings and not your friend.

As someone mentioned, you can build a 3 color deck just fine without fetches. They print new duals every damn set at this point.

RaiRai wrote:
I have no idea


Then why did you bother with this thread. There is actually nothing to discuss here, then.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Should we ban Fast Fetchlands?
AgePosted: 2016-Aug-30 8:11 am 

Joined: 2014-Jul-26 11:35 am
Age: Elder Dragon
I can shed some light on the "against edh spirit" argument some people have with fetches. Primarily it is the colour identity, some people dont like it when you put arid mesa in a UW deck for example, because the mesa has a sort of RW identity.

To be clear, I dont agree with those people, that's just the argument I have heard on occasion.

In commander the fetches are not really any more powerful than any other dual land, they are relatively expensive when you consider most dual lands, but that is only because they are played so extensively in modern, legacy and vintage. They are very powerful in formats where you can have 16+ fetchable dual lands or are using brainstorm. In a highlander format they are good, but really not essential.

As an aside, "Fetch lands" is pretty common shorthand for the zendikar and onslaught/khans cycle of lands (bloodstained mire and misty rainforest). However "Fast fetch lands" is not a term I've heard before, so it may be worth giving an example of the cards you are talking about in your original post to remove any potential confusion.

_________________
Favourite Deck:
Ghost Council of Orzhova

Playing Online:
Noyan Darr & Sedris Zombie Guy


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Should we ban Fast Fetchlands?
AgePosted: 2016-Aug-30 9:20 am 

Joined: 2015-Jan-14 2:58 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
I don't use off color fetches, but that's a conversation that's been done. It doesn't affect whether fetches in general are within the "Spirit of EDH" (gonna name my first yacht that). I suspect fast fetch is in contrast to the Bad River cycle of "slow fetches".

_________________
Deepglow Skate
Antis wrote:
I'm seriously suspicious of any card that makes Doubling Season look fair and reasonable.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Should we ban Fast Fetchlands?
AgePosted: 2016-Aug-30 10:37 am 

Joined: 2014-Jul-26 11:35 am
Age: Elder Dragon
That was my assumption as well, however there are so many nicknames for lands out there I wanted to be sure. Slow lands is another I have heard used to talk about a different cycle.

_________________
Favourite Deck:
Ghost Council of Orzhova

Playing Online:
Noyan Darr & Sedris Zombie Guy


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Should we ban Fast Fetchlands?
AgePosted: 2016-Aug-30 11:02 am 

Joined: 2015-Jan-14 2:58 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
specter404 wrote:
That was my assumption as well, however there are so many nicknames for lands out there I wanted to be sure. Slow lands is another I have heard used to talk about a different cycle.


That's the Tango/Battlelands?

_________________
Deepglow Skate
Antis wrote:
I'm seriously suspicious of any card that makes Doubling Season look fair and reasonable.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Should we ban Fast Fetchlands?
AgePosted: 2016-Aug-30 11:26 am 

Joined: 2013-Aug-20 4:37 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Boston
specter404 wrote:
In commander the fetches are not really any more powerful than any other dual land
They are quite a bit more powerful since they combo with shocks/abur duals/battle lands to become "pick two of your three colors" instead of just "here are two colors." They definitely aren't necessary or problematic, though.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Should we ban Fast Fetchlands?
AgePosted: 2016-Aug-30 11:45 am 

Joined: 2014-Jul-26 11:35 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Spectrar Ghost wrote:
specter404 wrote:
That was my assumption as well, however there are so many nicknames for lands out there I wanted to be sure. Slow lands is another I have heard used to talk about a different cycle.


That's the Tango/Battlelands?

No, the cycle of cards like mogg hollows which dont untap, they're slow because they take a long time to be used again. I learned a lot about different groups land nicknames when the battle lands came out and everyone was trying to name them.

_________________
Favourite Deck:
Ghost Council of Orzhova

Playing Online:
Noyan Darr & Sedris Zombie Guy


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Should we ban Fast Fetchlands?
AgePosted: 2016-Aug-30 12:52 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2016-May-16 12:03 pm
Age: Dragon
Location: The Blind Eternities
specter404 wrote:
Spectrar Ghost wrote:
specter404 wrote:
That was my assumption as well, however there are so many nicknames for lands out there I wanted to be sure. Slow lands is another I have heard used to talk about a different cycle.


That's the Tango/Battlelands?

No, the cycle of cards like mogg hollows which dont untap, they're slow because they take a long time to be used again. I learned a lot about different groups land nicknames when the battle lands came out and everyone was trying to name them.


Basically fast fetchlands are the ones you pay 1 or 2 life to search for a land then put into play

_________________
Image

RaiRai's Decks of Otherworldlyness:

Unknown Horizons
Bane of the Vast 1.0
Call from Eternity
Twisted Nightmares


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 49 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 33 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: