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 Post subject: Re: Should we unban? Griselbrand
AgePosted: 2016-Sep-07 5:54 am 
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Joined: 2011-Nov-16 1:14 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Prague, Heart of Europe
Epsilon wrote:
Sheldon wrote:
Have we forgotten that he first rule of living successfully on the internet is to not feed the trolls?


You heard it here first... Sheldon thinks RaiRai is a troll.

I was the first :P
Antis wrote:
RaiRai, that's not even a good attempt at trolling. Not taking part in this.

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In my late teens I was a Spike.
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 Post subject: Re: Should we unban? Griselbrand
AgePosted: 2016-Sep-07 6:19 am 

Joined: 2008-Nov-30 12:36 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
JJackson wrote:
I'm going to pick this point to derail the thread utterly since all of the meaningful discussion is done on it. This is surprisingly hard, and I think it ends up leaving the format with too much fast mana in the end.

My 10 card banned list:
Griselbrand
Yawgmoth's Bargain
Recurring Nightmare
Balance
Tinker
Channel
Tolarian Academy
Fastbond
Karakas
Sylvan Primordial

I think this list is still leaving off some cards that nobody should be playing with, but it at least gets the most egregious ones that people think are just powerful and fun and a decent chunk of the fast mana.


Despite the fact that I would actually snap jam Protean Hulk into every green deck I build, but would only play Sylvan Primordial in like one, maybe two decks, and even then only grudgingly... I'd say Hulk should stay on the list instead of Primordial. EDIT: Actually, maybe it's because I'd be about 500x more likely to play Hulk that is convincing me it needs to stay banned...

EDIT: Yeah, I failed my own thought exercise! The best I could do was pairing the Banlist down to 15 cards before I felt like it was just impossible to cut any more cards. Here's what I came up with:

Balance
Biorhythm
Coalition Victory
Channel
Fastbond
Griselbrand
Karakas
Limited Resources
Panoptic Mirror
Protean Hulk
Sundering Titan
Tinker
Tolarian Academy
Sway of the Stars
Upheaval

IMO, these are the absolute worst game-breakers. Almost every other banned card can be justified as being a necessary ban, but I think shit like Worldfire, the Power 8, Primeval Titan, etc can be self-regulated well enough to not ruin the format as a whole.

Protean Hulk simply cannot exist in the format if Recurring Nightmare exists, so one of those two HAS to stay banned, and of the two I think Nightmare would be the more fun to mess around with, as well as being more likely to self-regulate. I've seen Protean Hulk ruin games, not because of the person who played it, but because someone else just randomly had a deck that could exploit it way to easily. I don't see that happening with Recurring Nightmare.

We'd also have to bring back the Banned as Commander list, as Erayo, Rofellos and Braids are potential problems, but none of them are nearly as bad in the 99 as any of the 15 cards above. But, then again, I still believe removing the banned as commander list is one of the very few straight-up, objectively-wrong decisions the RC has made.

The main thing I really learned from this little thought exercise is that our banned list is actually really solid. I have a few quibbles, but it turns out I actually agree with the RC even more than I thought I did.

There are a small handful of cards I'd LIKE to see come off the list, but even most of those, I can't quite bring myself to call their banning a mistake or argue seriously for their unbanning. There are a few cards I'd be okay seeing banned, but can't fault the RC for not banning them.

If I could make one change, I'd be torn between two things: Swap Gifts Ungiven for Iona, or reinstate the Banned as Commander list.

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 Post subject: Re: Should we unban? Griselbrand
AgePosted: 2016-Sep-07 8:00 am 
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Joined: 2016-May-16 12:03 pm
Age: Dragon
Location: The Blind Eternities
Sheldon wrote:
Have we forgotten that he first rule of living successfully on the internet is to not feed the trolls?


I am not a troll, I thought to share a discussion that came up in my New playgroup should we group unban Griselbrand and with the knowledge and information, I can present a counterpoint to my group why he should remained banned. I apologize if you perceive me as such for simply asking a question, that by which is human nature to do so learn and convey information, and for someone who is on the Spectrum, someone explaining the reasons behind certain actions helps me understand why, how and the effects of such. If you don't appreciate the effort that I'm putting forth to understand the logic behind others' actions, along the fact my personality aligns with the Esper Shard; Kindly take your Graveyard Shovel, Start digging in the Desert til you strike Glistening oil then tell me how me your Journey to nowhere was in full detail.

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RaiRai's Decks of Otherworldlyness:

Unknown Horizons
Bane of the Vast 1.0
Call from Eternity
Twisted Nightmares


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 Post subject: Re: Should we unban? Griselbrand
AgePosted: 2016-Sep-07 8:57 am 
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Joined: 2014-Jul-28 8:30 am
Age: Dragon
When a card is banned, there is an announcement made by the RC. They provide the reasons for the ban. These announcements are conveniently located in the Rules Announcements subforum. A quick google search leads right to the topic detailing the RC's reasons for banning him. If you don't want to be called a troll, do a minute's worth of research before posting. Also, if ever there was a sign that it's time to start your own wacky format, I think Sheldon just gave it to you.

EDIT - link added for reference. http://mtgcommander.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=12073. It was the third result on google after searching "Griselbrand Banned Commander"

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 Post subject: Re: Should we unban? Griselbrand
AgePosted: 2016-Sep-07 12:07 pm 

Joined: 2016-Feb-13 2:14 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Orlando, Florida
RaiRai wrote:
Sheldon wrote:
Have we forgotten that he first rule of living successfully on the internet is to not feed the trolls?

I am not a troll, I thought to share a discussion that came up in my New playgroup should we group unban Griselbrand and with the knowledge and information, I can present a counterpoint to my group why he should remained banned. I apologize if you perceive me as such for simply asking a question, that by which is human nature to do so learn and convey information, and for someone who is on the Spectrum, someone explaining the reasons behind certain actions helps me understand why, how and the effects of such. If you don't appreciate the effort that I'm putting forth to understand the logic behind others' actions, along the fact my personality aligns with the Esper Shard; Kindly take your Graveyard Shovel, Start digging in the Desert til you strike Glistening oil then tell me how me your Journey to nowhere was in full detail.

Don't you have any idea who Sheldon or who the rules committee are? They literally govern Commander and shape the format. Telling him to bugger off is a good way to get removed from the forums.


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 Post subject: Re: Should we unban? Griselbrand
AgePosted: 2016-Sep-07 12:59 pm 
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Joined: 2016-May-16 12:03 pm
Age: Dragon
Location: The Blind Eternities
Marit Lage wrote:
RaiRai wrote:
Sheldon wrote:
Have we forgotten that he first rule of living successfully on the internet is to not feed the trolls?

I am not a troll, I thought to share a discussion that came up in my New playgroup should we group unban Griselbrand and with the knowledge and information, I can present a counterpoint to my group why he should remained banned. I apologize if you perceive me as such for simply asking a question, that by which is human nature to do so learn and convey information, and for someone who is on the Spectrum, someone explaining the reasons behind certain actions helps me understand why, how and the effects of such. If you don't appreciate the effort that I'm putting forth to understand the logic behind others' actions, along the fact my personality aligns with the Esper Shard; Kindly take your Graveyard Shovel, Start digging in the Desert til you strike Glistening oil then tell me how me your Journey to nowhere was in full detail.

Don't you have any idea who Sheldon or who the rules committee are? They literally govern Commander and shape the format. Telling him to bugger off is a good way to get removed from the forums.


Card reference part is more of metaphor to understand that I go through digging for answers and explanations then if anyone needs answers for the same query, I can provide them the same answer. It actually conveys additional meaning about Patience and taking time so presuming that its meaning is to tell someone off is crass and rather slapdash.

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RaiRai's Decks of Otherworldlyness:

Unknown Horizons
Bane of the Vast 1.0
Call from Eternity
Twisted Nightmares


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 Post subject: Re: Should we unban? Griselbrand
AgePosted: 2016-Sep-07 1:10 pm 
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Joined: 2014-Jul-28 8:30 am
Age: Dragon
RaiRai wrote:
Card reference part is more of metaphor to understand that I go through digging for answers and explanations then if anyone needs answers for the same query, I can provide them the same answer. It actually conveys additional meaning about Patience and taking time so presuming that its meaning is to tell someone off is crass and rather slapdash.


But you didn't do any digging in this case. If you had done even the most cursory careful study, you'd have found the banning announcement and there would be no reason for this topic. There's no big logic knot to untangle here. Maybe if you made more of a concerted effort people would be less likely to see your posts as the desperate ravings of a hunted troll.

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specter404 wrote:
Basically, when it comes to commander, I want you to stab me through the heart, not cut off my balls.

Gath Immortal wrote:
Twenty Kavus and a Dream is not a legacy deck.


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 Post subject: Re: Should we unban? Griselbrand
AgePosted: 2016-Sep-07 5:44 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Nov-16 1:14 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Prague, Heart of Europe
Ooh! I wanna try this, too!

RaiRai,

in addition to what the others have said about the Research // Development of your posts, you're totally free to house-free Griselbrand from his banlist Arrest. I'd make the Dangerous Wager of saying that you and your group would VERY quickly see what a Cosmic Horror he is and promptly send him back on his Path to Exile. What I mean is, you don't have to take anybody's word for this, just try it. Don't just make Quiet Speculations, play with the card and See Beyond. THEN we, who'd already done that, would be far more likely to listen to your Call to Arms.

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I could be wrong. I'm just not in the mood.
tempesteye wrote:
In my early teens I was a Timmy.
In my late teens I was a Spike.
In my 20's I was a Johnny.
Now, I just like to play.
'Active decks' list here.
Currently hiring servants for my palace, made from my own walls of text.


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 Post subject: Re: Should we unban? Griselbrand
AgePosted: 2016-Sep-07 9:22 pm 

Joined: 2015-Jan-14 2:58 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Good, good.

Round two: you're only allowed to reply in flavor text.

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I'm seriously suspicious of any card that makes Doubling Season look fair and reasonable.


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 Post subject: Re: Should we unban? Griselbrand
AgePosted: 2016-Sep-07 11:25 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Nov-16 1:14 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Prague, Heart of Europe
Spectrar Ghost wrote:
Good, good.

Round two: you're only allowed to reply in flavor text.
"If this is the cure, I'd hate to see the disease." —Orim

_________________
I could be wrong. I'm just not in the mood.
tempesteye wrote:
In my early teens I was a Timmy.
In my late teens I was a Spike.
In my 20's I was a Johnny.
Now, I just like to play.
'Active decks' list here.
Currently hiring servants for my palace, made from my own walls of text.


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 Post subject: Re: Should we unban? Griselbrand
AgePosted: 2016-Sep-07 11:38 pm 

Joined: 2013-Aug-20 4:37 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Boston
Spectrar Ghost wrote:
Good, good.

Round two: you're only allowed to reply in flavor text.

"There are harsher ways to learn the meaning of the word ‘no.'"
—Rashida Scalebane


(Aside: I am super disappointed that the flavor text for Last Word isn't just No.)


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 Post subject: Re: Should we unban? Griselbrand
AgePosted: 2016-Sep-08 12:47 am 

Joined: 2011-Aug-18 3:35 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
"What's your plan?" Gideon asked.
"Are you serious?" Chandra replied.


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 Post subject: Re: Should we unban? Griselbrand
AgePosted: 2016-Sep-08 12:56 am 

Joined: 2015-Jan-14 2:58 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
JJackson wrote:
Spectrar Ghost wrote:
Good, good.

Round two: you're only allowed to reply in flavor text.

"There are harsher ways to learn the meaning of the word ‘no.'"
—Rashida Scalebane


(Aside: I am super disappointed that the flavor text for Last Word isn't just No.)


Override:
The Knowledge Pool has all the answers - especially "No"

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Antis wrote:
I'm seriously suspicious of any card that makes Doubling Season look fair and reasonable.


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 Post subject: Re: Should we unban? Griselbrand
AgePosted: 2016-Sep-08 1:41 am 
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Joined: 2013-May-29 9:57 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Atlanta, GA
Sheldon wrote:
Have we forgotten that he first rule of living successfully on the internet is to not feed the trolls?

"Not again..." -Hans

RaiRai wrote:
I am not a troll

Altered by Phyrexian science, corrupted by black mana, and twisted by rage, Ertai still looked in the mirror and saw only glory.

kirkusjones wrote:
When a card is banned, there is an announcement made by the RC. They provide the reasons for the ban.

"The penalty for idleness is death. The penalty for disputing the penalty is death."

Marit Lage wrote:
Don't you have any idea who Sheldon or who the rules committee are? They literally govern Commander and shape the format. Telling him to bugger off is a good way to get removed from the forums.

He has journeyed to where none have been before. Now he returns to ensure that none follow.

Quote:
Should we unban? Griselbrand

"Change your mind or I'll change it for you." - The Western Paladin

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 Post subject: Re: Should we unban? Griselbrand
AgePosted: 2016-Sep-08 9:02 am 

Joined: 2014-Jul-26 11:35 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Spectrar Ghost wrote:
Good, good.

Round two: you're only allowed to reply in flavor text.


Original Stifle:
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."

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