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 Post subject: Re: Should we unban? Griselbrand
AgePosted: 2016-Sep-08 12:13 pm 
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Joined: 2014-Jul-28 8:30 am
Age: Dragon
Sheldon wrote:
Have we forgotten that he first rule of living successfully on the internet is to not feed the trolls?

"Anybody want some...toast?" - Jaya Ballard, Task Mage


To everyone else, bravo. You guys are the best.

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specter404 wrote:
Basically, when it comes to commander, I want you to stab me through the heart, not cut off my balls.

Gath Immortal wrote:
Twenty Kavus and a Dream is not a legacy deck.


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 Post subject: Re: Should we unban? Griselbrand
AgePosted: 2016-Sep-08 2:32 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
RaiRai wrote:
I am not a troll

IMO you were given the benefit of the doubt - a troll knows what he is saying is outlandish and is saying it to incite a reaction from others. And to be frank, nearly every post you've started on these forums has been chock full of outlandish nonsense, frequently with a heaping helping of having no idea what the actual rules of the game are and delivered with a self-assured confidence. It's like if Donald Trump played magic.

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 Post subject: Re: Should we unban? Griselbrand
AgePosted: 2016-Sep-08 2:37 pm 
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Sid the Chicken wrote:
RaiRai wrote:
I am not a troll

IMO you were given the benefit of the doubt - a troll knows what he is saying is outlandish and is saying it to incite a reaction from others. And to be frank, nearly every post you've started on these forums has been chock full of outlandish nonsense, frequently with a heaping helping of having no idea what the actual rules of the game are and delivered with a self-assured confidence. It's like if Donald Trump played magic.


"An idiot cannot hear sense, even when a thousand people speak it." - Sorine Relicbane, Soldevi Heretic

Too on the nose?

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specter404 wrote:
Basically, when it comes to commander, I want you to stab me through the heart, not cut off my balls.

Gath Immortal wrote:
Twenty Kavus and a Dream is not a legacy deck.


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 Post subject: Re: Should we unban? Griselbrand
AgePosted: 2016-Sep-08 2:56 pm 
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Age: Elder Dragon
kirkusjones wrote:
"An idiot cannot hear sense, even when a thousand people speak it." - Sorine Relicbane, Soldevi Heretic

Too on the nose?
After what he said to Sheldon, nope.

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 Post subject: Re: Should we unban? Griselbrand
AgePosted: 2016-Sep-09 12:50 am 

Joined: 2012-Mar-31 11:52 am
Age: Elder Dragon
So the guy says he isn't trolling but actually falls (somewhere) on the autism spectrum, and you.guys continue to bully him? Classy.

(Note that I don't think that being autistic gets you a free pass in life and that part of living with a health concern is to learn to manage it.)


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 Post subject: Re: Should we unban? Griselbrand
AgePosted: 2016-Sep-09 12:54 am 

Joined: 2008-Aug-08 6:34 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Rouen, France
cryogen wrote:
So the guy says he isn't trolling but actually falls (somewhere) on the autism spectrum, and you.guys continue to bully him? Classy.


I missed the bit where he said he was autistic or do you know him to be autistic?

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 Post subject: Re: Should we unban? Griselbrand
AgePosted: 2016-Sep-09 1:03 am 

Joined: 2008-Nov-30 12:36 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
zimagic wrote:
cryogen wrote:
So the guy says he isn't trolling but actually falls (somewhere) on the autism spectrum, and you.guys continue to bully him? Classy.


I missed the bit where he said he was autistic or do you know him to be autistic?


It was in his direct reply to Sheldon saying "don't feed the trolls".

To be fair, he kinda threw it in Sheldon's/our faces out of nowhere, as if we were supposed to have already known. Maybe he's mentioned it before, IDK, but I've read an awful lot of RaiRai threads and never saw it mentioned until the moment Sheldon called him a troll. Then suddenly it's like "Oh, sure pick on the autistic guy! You assholes!" Well, sorry did we know until that moment? No!

But, assuming it's true (and I wouldn't put it past someone on the internet to lie about being on the spectrum to make excuses for their trollish behavior), we should definitely lay off him a BIT.

But to Cryo's point, being on the spectrum doesn't give you a free pass to be an obnoxious asshole. RaiRai needs to make more of an effort on his part, but we need to give him the room to make that effort.

Even if he is lying (probably isn't, but it's a possibility), it doesn't really do any good to fight asshole with asshole. I know this from experience as it's a mistake I've made on these forums many times!

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 Post subject: Re: Should we unban? Griselbrand
AgePosted: 2016-Sep-09 1:14 am 
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Joined: 2014-Jul-28 8:30 am
Age: Dragon
RaiRai wrote:
Sheldon wrote:
Have we forgotten that he first rule of living successfully on the internet is to not feed the trolls?

I apologize if you perceive me as such for simply asking a question, that by which is human nature to do so learn and convey information, and for someone who is on the Spectrum, someone explaining the reasons behind certain actions helps me understand why, how and the effects of such..


I trimmed out the bit where he insinsuates Sheldon can take a long walk off a short pier. The thing is, he said he wanted an explanation and that he does research to find it. Explanations are frequently given. It's only when they get almost categorically ignored that people (myself included) get annoyed. I get that being on the spectrum comes with its own wide array of difficulties, but having worked for the last five years with kids who ranged in impactedness from severe to mild, a simple google search (in the case of this question) is not asking too much. Admittedly, I could and have tried to be more patient, but I think my own personal solution is to sit these threads out if I'm not adding something constructive. However, that doesn't mean constructive responses won't occasionally be accompanied with some sarcasm.

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specter404 wrote:
Basically, when it comes to commander, I want you to stab me through the heart, not cut off my balls.

Gath Immortal wrote:
Twenty Kavus and a Dream is not a legacy deck.


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 Post subject: Re: Should we unban? Griselbrand
AgePosted: 2016-Sep-09 1:24 am 

Joined: 2013-Aug-20 4:37 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Boston
thaumaturge wrote:
it doesn't really do any good to fight asshole with asshole

That's pretty much the moral of Requiem for a Dream isn't it?


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 Post subject: Re: Should we unban? Griselbrand
AgePosted: 2016-Sep-09 1:49 am 

Joined: 2008-Aug-08 6:34 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Rouen, France
kirkusjones wrote:
RaiRai wrote:
Sheldon wrote:
Have we forgotten that he first rule of living successfully on the internet is to not feed the trolls?

I apologize if you perceive me as such for simply asking a question, that by which is human nature to do so learn and convey information, and for someone who is on the Spectrum, someone explaining the reasons behind certain actions helps me understand why, how and the effects of such..


I trimmed out the bit where he insinsuates Sheldon can take a long walk off a short pier. The thing is, he said he wanted an explanation and that he does research to find it. Explanations are frequently given. It's only when they get almost categorically ignored that people (myself included) get annoyed. I get that being on the spectrum comes with its own wide array of difficulties, but having worked for the last five years with kids who ranged in impactedness from severe to mild, a simple google search (in the case of this question) is not asking too much. Admittedly, I could and have tried to be more patient, but I think my own personal solution is to sit these threads out if I'm not adding something constructive. However, that doesn't mean constructive responses won't occasionally be accompanied with some sarcasm.


Learn something new every day.

Nothing he said jumped out at me sufficiently to say "This is something you should Google". That said, I'm completely disconnected with the common English (or French for that matter) vocabulary associated with autism to actually require someone to say to me "I have autism" and not just assume I knew what the person talking to me was on about. Add a few layers of internetz and scanning rather than reading and I think "Whooosh!" is probably the most relevant addition I can make to the ongoing discussion.

The scary thing is: I may not be alone.

And face it, who honestly thought "Let's say nasty things to RaiRai with flavor text!" rather than "Eh, cool, we're conversing in flavor text! Gatherer!"?

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Current decks:
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Scarab God Zombie Horde
Sissay 5c Superfriends
Morophon Eldrazi (5C Devoid)
Grenzo's Goblins


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 Post subject: Re: Should we unban? Griselbrand
AgePosted: 2016-Sep-09 3:40 am 
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Joined: 2008-Dec-15 4:52 am
Age: Drake
Location: Little Canadia
JJackson wrote:
thaumaturge wrote:
it doesn't really do any good to fight asshole with asshole

That's pretty much the moral of Requiem for a Dream isn't it?


And here I thought it was all about the drugs. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Should we unban? Griselbrand
AgePosted: 2016-Sep-09 3:45 am 
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Joined: 2013-May-29 9:57 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Atlanta, GA
Dark Shade wrote:
JJackson wrote:
That's pretty much the moral of Requiem for a Dream isn't it?


And here I thought it was all about the drugs. :wink:

I always thought the moral was "Go to the video store and rent Pi instead."

Never really liked that one. My mom is a huge Aranovsky fan, and even she thinks Requiem wasn't one of his better works.

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 Post subject: Re: Should we unban? Griselbrand
AgePosted: 2016-Sep-09 8:05 am 
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Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Tampa, FL, USA
Zirilan of the Claw wrote:
Dark Shade wrote:
JJackson wrote:
That's pretty much the moral of Requiem for a Dream isn't it?


And here I thought it was all about the drugs. :wink:

I always thought the moral was "Go to the video store and rent Pi instead."

Never really liked that one. My mom is a huge Aranovsky fan, and even she thinks Requiem wasn't one of his better works.


I'm only moderately an Aronovsky fan, and I think Requiem is a masterpiece.

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 Post subject: Re: Should we unban? Griselbrand
AgePosted: 2016-Sep-09 12:56 pm 

Joined: 2014-Jul-26 11:35 am
Age: Elder Dragon
RaiRai wrote:
Sheldon wrote:
Have we forgotten that he first rule of living successfully on the internet is to not feed the trolls?

I apologize if you perceive me as such for simply asking a question, that by which is human nature to do so learn and convey information, and for someone who is on the Spectrum, someone explaining the reasons behind certain actions helps me understand why, how and the effects of such..

cryogen wrote:
So the guy says he isn't trolling but actually falls (somewhere) on the autism spectrum, and you.guys continue to bully him? Classy.

(Note that I don't think that being autistic gets you a free pass in life and that part of living with a health concern is to learn to manage it.)

Here's the problem with that assertion. I am a highschool teacher, I work with young people with Autism spectrum disorder on a daily basis, I also wrote an extensive essay on autism as part of my qualification, so I can tell you a bit about how people with this disorder behave.

People with this disorder do not use the term "On the spectrum", most are simply not that self-aware, but the ones that are, discuss the difficulties they have like "I dont understand how others react to things.

In addition, those that do have some understanding of their difficulties adjust their behavior in response to feedback. I understand that a person with this disorder is unable to understand the response to their behaviour in the moment, but anyone that is sufficiently aware of themselves to acknowledge being "on the spectrum" is able to change their approach when confronted with similar situations. They are not stupid people and they do know how to analyse situations and adjust.

RaiRai, you have both identified you need explanations for peoples actions as well as blatantly ignored those explanations when given. You have made the same social errors, received the same feedback and continued to act the same way. This shows very clearly that you are not trying to improve your interactions here.

This leaves us with two possibilities:
1) You are telling the truth, you are a self aware austistic and are using it as an excuse for not learning and to garner sympathy. In which case the best course of action is to continue to give you negative feedback until you change your behaviour.
2) You are lying and hence are still being a troll in which case we should continue giving you negative feedback because we enjoy it.

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 Post subject: Re: Should we unban? Griselbrand
AgePosted: 2016-Sep-09 6:56 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Nov-16 1:14 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Prague, Heart of Europe
specter404 wrote:
This leaves us with two possibilities:
1) You are telling the truth, you are a self aware austistic and are using it as an excuse for not learning and to garner sympathy. In which case the best course of action is to continue to give you negative feedback until you change your behaviour.
2) You are lying and hence are still being a troll in which case we should continue giving you negative feedback because we enjoy it.
Yep, this is what it boils down to. Not a teacher, but I have an autistic older brother and from what I've seen in him and people like him, I perceive being autistic not so much as a condition, but rather as a kind of nature, similar to cholerics, melancholics and such. It's just a way a person's brain is wired. Just like your personality can be more or less irritable, for example, so it can be more or less sensitive to others' moods, to sarcasm etc. One common sign I've found is laser-precise overspecialization. One of my brother's friends is consumed by linguistics. I've witnessed him start a conversation about an obscure English folk poem and literally marvel at the fact that it has a certain number of syllables, but the Czech translation has one syllable less. At that point, even my brother was like: "Dude, WTF?" :)

So yeah, there's degrees and there are people whose autistic features are intolerable, much like any other personality trait, taken to extreme. If you have a friend who breaks into a fit of crying every time someone look funny at them, I think it's pretty much the same thing as someone who gets all Rain Man on their mother when she tries to clean their room. It's an extreme form of a common personality trait that everyone has to some degree. Somebody jumps up scared in the haunted house at the fair, somebody else screams for their life any time they see a spider. Somebody ignores good manners and simply stops listening to you when he loses interest in whatever you're saying at the moment, somebody else can't stop telling black jokes at their own mother's funeral.

My brother learned to adapt to the society and is somehow making it. Some autistic people can't do that, much like some people can't get their anger issues under control. In an ideal case, the person adapts a little, their close ones adapt a little and everything works out, but that's not always possible. So in dealing with any person, some tolerance is good, but there are limits and beyond is the realm of "You're being a dick, you're the one that needs to correct their behavior."

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In my early teens I was a Timmy.
In my late teens I was a Spike.
In my 20's I was a Johnny.
Now, I just like to play.
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