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 Post subject: Re: Should we unban Tolarian Academy?
AgePosted: 2016-Sep-24 9:13 am 

Joined: 2009-Apr-21 3:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Palm Springs Area, CA
kiddyman wrote:
JJackson wrote:
tgambitg wrote:
T1 Darksteel Citadel. Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, Mana Vault, Lotus Petal, T2 Tolarian Academy for 5 mana, tap the artifacts for 7 more, tap the citadel for the last mana, Cast Emrakul, The Promised End.

You're slow, Gambit. The goalpost has been moved to challenging the consistency of a deck's ability to kick out T2 eldrazi.


haha ur kidding me ? seriously... thats the reason why we unbanned tolarian academy...
ur example is a joke!

first turn 6 mana... coman i want an realistic deck and start...
so far no awnser.

Im simply asking for the deck where academy goes off...
if there are no decks... there is no reason.

cheers kid
nope.

That kind of play is not the reason why academy was banned.

Rather it was banned because having a deck full of artifacts was simple to do with almost zero consequence. Dropping academy on turn 4 with 4 other land and 4+ useful artifacts was not an uncommon experience.
The land was easy to power and more difficult to interact with. It was rarely fun. I mean, when Unbender Tine is a fine enough addition to the deck you might have a problem.

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 Post subject: Re: Should we unban Tolarian Academy?
AgePosted: 2016-Sep-24 2:01 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Dec-03 3:16 am
Age: Elder Dragon
I have been playing this http://mtgcommander.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=17507 for about 18 months without any complaints.

I really feel blue keeps getting weaker and weaker... maybe it is time to unleash the power of U.

I mean, Red is still the weakest color in EDH, but they keep printing stuff like Combustible Gearhulk and that is going to change.

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 Post subject: Re: Should we unban Tolarian Academy?
AgePosted: 2016-Sep-24 9:45 pm 

Joined: 2016-Feb-13 2:14 pm
Age: Dragon
Location: Orlando, Florida
Inkeyes22 wrote:
I have been playing this http://mtgcommander.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=17507 for about 18 months without any complaints.

I really feel blue keeps getting weaker and weaker... maybe it is time to unleash the power of U.

I mean, Red is still the weakest color in EDH, but they keep printing stuff like Combustible Gearhulk and that is going to change.

I don't know what blue decks you've seen, but blue is probably the strongest color in commander right now, qnd has been for a while.


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 Post subject: Re: Should we unban Tolarian Academy?
AgePosted: 2016-Sep-24 11:59 pm 

Joined: 2012-Mar-31 11:52 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Marit Lage wrote:
Inkeyes22 wrote:
I have been playing this http://mtgcommander.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=17507 for about 18 months without any complaints.

I really feel blue keeps getting weaker and weaker... maybe it is time to unleash the power of U.

I mean, Red is still the weakest color in EDH, but they keep printing stuff like Combustible Gearhulk and that is going to change.

I don't know what blue decks you've seen, but blue is probably the strongest color in commander right now, qnd has been for a while.

Blue is strong because it has two decades of broken history supporting it. Inkeyes isn't saying that blue is weak, just that it has been getting nerfed in recent history, while the more traditionally weak red has been getting stronger.


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 Post subject: Re: Should we unban Tolarian Academy?
AgePosted: 2016-Sep-25 12:16 am 

Joined: 2015-Jan-14 2:58 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
I've never gotten to play with or against Academy. How does it compare to Nykthos, which I've found is totally bonkers in the right decks?

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 Post subject: Re: Should we unban Tolarian Academy?
AgePosted: 2016-Sep-25 12:45 am 

Joined: 2012-Mar-31 11:52 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Spectrar Ghost wrote:
I've never gotten to play with or against Academy. How does it compare to Nykthos, which I've found is totally bonkers in the right decks?

I don't think I've ever seen that card do anything spectacular outside of mono-colored decks. Sort of how like Cabal Coffers isn't that impressive outside monoblack or Urborg in play. Academy can be played in any blue deck as long as it's artifact-heavy, and it doesn't doesn't require a mana investment to activate.


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 Post subject: Re: Should we unban Tolarian Academy?
AgePosted: 2016-Sep-25 12:47 am 

Joined: 2013-Aug-20 4:37 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Boston
If you've played against a Nykthos deck that is getting its devotion from enchantments, it is a similar vibe, but happens faster because you don't have to have 2 to invest up front.


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 Post subject: Re: Should we unban Tolarian Academy?
AgePosted: 2016-Sep-25 3:20 am 
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Joined: 2006-Dec-31 12:26 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
kiddyman wrote:
since the argue came 3 times on topic...(secound turn eldrazis...early op abuse of Academy...)
i wanna see what decks are able to do so, not really cherry picking isn't it?


kiddyman wrote:
haha ur kidding me ? seriously... thats the reason why we unbanned tolarian academy...
ur example is a joke!

Yup, cherry picking.

You've been told that it's multiple reasons, and here you are claiming that we're saying an early eldrazi is the reason it's banned.

It's a contributing factor - but not the only one.

So yes, you're cherry picking arguments and ignoring anything that works against what you want to see.


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 Post subject: Re: Should we unban Tolarian Academy?
AgePosted: 2016-Sep-25 3:51 am 

Joined: 2012-Apr-11 7:17 am
Age: Elder Dragon
kiddyman wrote:
Im simply asking for the deck where academy goes off...
if there are no decks... there is no reason.
There are plenty of decks, and you can do your own research. People provided the openings that were an issue, you ignored them because you don't agree. Its on you to prove its safe, not the other way around. You look to have been here about 5 minutes, do some searches, this aint new ground.

Quote:
cheers kid
In case you didnt know (English as a second language or something) this is really condescending. FYI

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 Post subject: Re: Should we unban Tolarian Academy?
AgePosted: 2016-Sep-25 4:50 am 

Joined: 2015-Jan-14 2:58 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
I think that might be "Cheers, Kid[dyman]"

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I'm seriously suspicious of any card that makes Doubling Season look fair and reasonable.


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 Post subject: Re: Should we unban Tolarian Academy?
AgePosted: 2016-Sep-25 4:55 am 

Joined: 2016-Feb-13 2:14 pm
Age: Dragon
Location: Orlando, Florida
kiddyman wrote:
haha ur kidding me ? seriously... thats the reason why we unbanned tolarian academy...
ur example is a joke!

first turn 6 mana... coman i want an realistic deck and start...
so far no awnser.

Im simply asking for the deck where academy goes off...
if there are no decks... there is no reason.

cheers kid

Here's an answer from Sheldon back in June of 2010, since you obviously haven't done the research, or simply don't care:

Sheldon wrote:
The watchword of the Rule’s Committee’s vision of the format is ‘interactive.’ We’d like to foster an environment where ridiculous things happen, but that everyone playing has a chance to do them. Early, reliable, hyper-production of mana often leads to a single player playing by himself and others watching, and that’s not what we want for EDH.


Last edited by Marit Lage on 2016-Sep-25 4:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Should we unban Tolarian Academy?
AgePosted: 2016-Sep-25 4:56 am 
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Joined: 2013-Oct-26 9:21 am
Age: Dragon
Location: Xenia, OH, USA
kiddyman wrote:
tgambitg wrote:
kiddyman wrote:
well so far i here not one example of one single ordinary deck that abuse academy.
give me some decklist then i make u the maths :)

start with memnarch, because think he is the most dedicated to abuse :)
after memnarch...sharum? and then?

im curious, wanna see a deck that would explode early with acadamy.
and play on tun 2 big eldrazi.

thanks for helping me.

cheers kid


T1 Darksteel Citadel. Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, Mana Vault, Lotus Petal, T2 Tolarian Academy for 5 mana, tap the artifacts for 7 more, tap the citadel for the last mana, Cast Emrakul, The Promised End.


haha ur kidding me ? seriously... thats the reason why we unbanned tolarian academy...
ur example is a joke!

first turn 6 mana... coman i want an realistic deck and start...
so far no awnser.

Im simply asking for the deck where academy goes off...
if there are no decks... there is no reason.

cheers kid


You asked for an example of Academy exploding early. I gave an example, one that is entirely possible.

Sure, I picked the most extreme case, But even getting out Void Winnower that early is devastating to the board. It would only need Sol Ring, Darksteel Citadel, Mana Vault, and Tolarian Academy in the opening hand/draw.

But T2 is not where it is broken, T3 through T-Infinity is where it is broken. You need to deploy artifact wipes to stop it, unlike Gaea's Cradle where a board wipe slows it down.

I count 10 mass artifact destruction spells, 1 creature, 1 artifact, and 1 enchantment that deals with all artifacts simultaneously, 2 exile all artifact spells, and 1 exile all artifact activated ability. With something like Darksteel Forge out, It takes it down to the exile spells.

There's a solid reason for Tolarian Academy to have been banned, and no evidence other than you wanting it to be so to unban it.

Believe me, with the amount of brown decks I build, I would LOOOOOOOOOVE for it to be legal. But I understand why it isn't.


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 Post subject: Re: Should we unban Tolarian Academy?
AgePosted: 2016-Sep-25 5:43 am 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
Spectrar Ghost wrote:
I think that might be "Cheers, Kid[dyman]"

That being said, a number of posts previous to that the established closing was "Cheers k". Seems strange to change it to "Cheers kid" suddenly.

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 Post subject: Re: Should we unban Tolarian Academy?
AgePosted: 2016-Sep-25 6:37 am 

Joined: 2014-Sep-13 7:28 am
Age: Elder Dragon
kiddyman wrote:
coman i want an realistic deck and start...
so far no awnser.

Im simply asking for the deck where academy goes off...
if there are no decks... there is no reason.

cheers kid

Did you know it doesn't matter what you want? Just because you cannot understand the reason does not mean someone HAS to provide it for you.

Enjoy your not-busted deck with a fair Academy your group allows.


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 Post subject: Re: Should we unban Tolarian Academy?
AgePosted: 2016-Sep-25 6:01 pm 

Joined: 2016-Sep-19 12:15 am
Age: Drake
in an free minute i will type it :)

till this moment im looking forward for a (Pro-abuse ;) Decklist.

Cheers Kid


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