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 Post subject: Grave Betrayal
AgePosted: 2016-Sep-25 1:26 am 
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Joined: 2012-Feb-07 4:15 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
If I'm in a 3+ player game, two people control a Grave Betrayal, and a creature controlled by one of the other players dies, what happens?


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 Post subject: Re: Grave Betrayal
AgePosted: 2016-Sep-25 1:47 am 

Joined: 2016-Feb-13 2:14 pm
Age: Dragon
Location: Orlando, Florida
Uktabi_Kong wrote:
If I'm in a 3+ player game, two people control a Grave Betrayal, and a creature controlled by one of the other players dies, what happens?

Going clockwise (or turn order), you put all triggered abilities on the stack. Then, resolve them in reverse order. Assuming a clockwise turn order, the player closest to the right of owner of the creature will have their creature, as the second Grave Betrayal (the first one to put its trigger on the stack) is unable to put the creature onto the battlefield, since it's changed zones and become a new object.


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 Post subject: Re: Grave Betrayal
AgePosted: 2016-Sep-25 1:50 am 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
Marit Lage wrote:
Uktabi_Kong wrote:
If I'm in a 3+ player game, two people control a Grave Betrayal, and a creature controlled by one of the other players dies, what happens?

Going clockwise (or turn order), you put all triggered abilities on the stack. Then, resolve them in reverse order. Assuming a clockwise turn order, the player closest to the right of owner of the creature will have their creature, as the second Grave Betrayal (the first one to put its trigger on the stack) is unable to put the creature onto the battlefield, since it's changed zones and become a new object.

Yup, I was getting ready to say the same thing, but ended up deciding to double check everything.

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 Post subject: Re: Grave Betrayal
AgePosted: 2016-Sep-25 3:40 am 

Joined: 2012-Oct-24 8:05 pm
Age: Drake
Actually, it's the player closest to the right of the active player, not (necessarily) the owner.


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 Post subject: Re: Grave Betrayal
AgePosted: 2016-Sep-25 3:50 am 

Joined: 2016-Feb-13 2:14 pm
Age: Dragon
Location: Orlando, Florida
NMS wrote:
Actually, it's the player closest to the right of the active player, not (necessarily) the owner.

Good catch. I should have double checked before posting.


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 Post subject: Re: Grave Betrayal
AgePosted: 2016-Sep-29 5:01 pm 

Joined: 2016-Aug-15 1:21 pm
Age: Drake
I remember looking it up when I thought about using it. I think it was something about a delayed trigger and whoever's furthest from the current player's turn has their effect hit the stack last, which means it resolves first.

My question is if a field wipe hits all creatures and Grave Betrayal, something like Akroma's Vengeance, does Grave Betrayal still bring the creatures back?

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 Post subject: Re: Grave Betrayal
AgePosted: 2016-Sep-29 8:14 pm 

Joined: 2016-Feb-13 2:14 pm
Age: Dragon
Location: Orlando, Florida
Drrakus wrote:
I remember looking it up when I thought about using it. I think it was something about a delayed trigger and whoever's furthest from the current player's turn has their effect hit the stack last, which means it resolves first.

My question is if a field wipe hits all creatures and Grave Betrayal, something like Akroma's Vengeance, does Grave Betrayal still bring the creatures back?

It depends on the order of what's written on the card. Akroma's Vengeance destroys permanents in the order of artifacts, creatures, and enchantments. Grave Betrayal would look back in time to see if it could trigger, and since it can, it does.

Other the other side of this, Austere Command destroys enchantments before creatures, and Grave Betrayal's owner wouldn't get any creatures back, since it was destroyed and put into the graveyard before any creatures died.


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 Post subject: Re: Grave Betrayal
AgePosted: 2016-Sep-29 10:59 pm 

Joined: 2013-Aug-20 4:37 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Boston
Marit Lage wrote:
Akroma's Vengeance destroys permanents in the order of artifacts, creatures, and enchantments.
Akroma's Vengeance actually destroys them simultaneously because it tells you to take a single action on the set of cards (artifacts, creatures, and enchantments). Austere Command is instructing you to do multiple actions, which is why the order matters for it.


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 Post subject: Re: Grave Betrayal
AgePosted: 2016-Sep-30 2:27 am 

Joined: 2016-Feb-13 2:14 pm
Age: Dragon
Location: Orlando, Florida
JJackson wrote:
Marit Lage wrote:
Akroma's Vengeance destroys permanents in the order of artifacts, creatures, and enchantments.
Akroma's Vengeance actually destroys them simultaneously because it tells you to take a single action on the set of cards (artifacts, creatures, and enchantments). Austere Command is instructing you to do multiple actions, which is why the order matters for it.

Then, in that case, it would look back in time to see if it could trigger, and steal the creatures.


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 Post subject: Re: Grave Betrayal
AgePosted: 2016-Sep-30 4:36 am 

Joined: 2013-Aug-20 4:37 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Boston
Marit Lage wrote:
JJackson wrote:
Marit Lage wrote:
Akroma's Vengeance destroys permanents in the order of artifacts, creatures, and enchantments.
Akroma's Vengeance actually destroys them simultaneously because it tells you to take a single action on the set of cards (artifacts, creatures, and enchantments). Austere Command is instructing you to do multiple actions, which is why the order matters for it.

Then, in that case, it would look back in time to see if it could trigger, and steal the creatures.

Yes. You had the right rulings on both cards (AV allows GB to steal, AC does not), but were just a small bit off on the one point.


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