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 Post subject: Sun Titan + crew
AgePosted: 2016-Oct-09 5:47 pm 

Joined: 2015-Apr-23 11:27 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Antwerp, Belgium
If I attack with a creature with vigilance, Sun Titan for example, can I still tap it to crew a vehicle after I declare it as an attacker?

Can the crewed vehicle attack right away alongside Sun Titan?

Can I tap the titan to crew two vehicles, two Bomat Bazaar Barges for example?


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 Post subject: Re: Sun Titan + crew
AgePosted: 2016-Oct-09 7:26 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Jul-18 9:59 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Nigerian Prince wrote:
If I attack with a creature with vigilance, Sun Titan for example, can I still tap it to crew a vehicle after I declare it as an attacker?
Yes, but
Quote:
Can the crewed vehicle attack right away alongside Sun Titan?
No. You only get one chance to declare attackers. If somehow you have multiple attack steps, the vehicle could attack in the second (and each after).... but in your scenario you have a Vigilance creature which could have attacked every combat anyway. And who doesn't love multiple Sun Titan triggers?
Quote:
Can I tap the titan to crew two vehicles, two Bomat Bazaar Barges for example?
No, any "extra" power is lost.

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 Post subject: Re: Sun Titan + crew
AgePosted: 2016-Oct-24 5:18 pm 

Joined: 2015-Apr-23 11:27 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Antwerp, Belgium
Thanks for clarifying.

After a weekend of Kaladesh drafts, one thing is still not clear to me... I read everywhere that you can crew a vehicle that you've just played, but you can't attack with it since it has summoning sickness. However, creatures with summoning sickness can be used to crew a vehicle, and are probably gonna vomit all over my beautiful Renegade Freighter leather interior. The vehicle itself, a mechanical device, has to wait a turn, it just doesn't feel right. At the time your vehicle enters the BF, it's not a creature, right? So why is it sick when I crew it? Idk, maybe I want rules to follow flavor too often.

So I guess I've always played cards like Chimeric Mass wrong, I assume that one can't attack the turn it comes into play either then.

I read somewhere that in fact every permanent has summoning sickness, but only creatures are effected by it since it says that you can't tap with the tap symbol or attack? But that doesn't make sense, that would mean I can't tap Sol Ring the turn it enters play.

Can someone explain this to me like I'm a noob, 'cause that's how I feel after lengthy discussions on the topic the last few days...


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 Post subject: Re: Sun Titan + crew
AgePosted: 2016-Oct-24 6:27 pm 

Joined: 2013-Jun-23 10:18 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Think of it this way.

Anything that is a creature has summoning sickness the turn it enters play, even if it didn't enter play as a creature. So if you crew your Vehicle the turn it enters and it lacks haste, no dice.

However, when the Vehicle enters play it's an artefact, not a creature. It doesn't- at that point- have summoning sickness, so it can be crewed immediately (the ability of Crew is an ability of the vehicle, not the creatures you use to crew it). Once it is crewed, however, the summoning sickness will kick in and it won't be able to attack.

This isn't the most technical explanation, but it works fine for the most part.

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 Post subject: Re: Sun Titan + crew
AgePosted: 2016-Oct-24 6:35 pm 

Joined: 2012-Mar-31 11:52 am
Age: Elder Dragon
One nitpick, if it didn't begin your turn under your control then it has summoning sickness. For example, if you targeted vehicle with Blatent Thievery it wouldn't be able to attack.


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 Post subject: Re: Sun Titan + crew
AgePosted: 2016-Oct-24 11:45 pm 

Joined: 2011-Sep-30 6:08 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Nigerian Prince wrote:
I read somewhere that in fact every permanent has summoning sickness, but only creatures are effected by it
Well, sort of. The rule is this:

Quote:
302.6. A creature’s activated ability with the tap symbol or the untap symbol in its activation cost can’t be activated unless the creature has been under its controller’s control continuously since his or her most recent turn began. A creature can’t attack unless it has been under its controller’s control continuously since his or her most recent turn began. This rule is informally called the “summoning sickness” rule.

If you look at that, it will be pretty clear why things work the way they do. The rule specifies "a creature" can't do certain things.

While a Vehicle is just an Artifact, this rule doesn't see it. Once a Vehicle turns into a creature, the rule does see it. Same with Chimeric Mass.

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