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 Post subject: Paradox Engine 0_o
AgePosted: 2016-Dec-29 11:43 am 

Joined: 2013-Mar-15 8:39 am
Age: Dragon
Location: Canada, Ontario
So... This is currently a spoiler atm http://mythicspoiler.com/aer/cards/paradoxengine.html.
Thoughts?

I'm hoping it gets banned before it sees play like Griselbrand.


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 Post subject: Re: Paradox Engine 0_o
AgePosted: 2016-Dec-29 1:20 pm 

Joined: 2012-Apr-11 7:17 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Bull wrote:
I'm hoping it gets banned before it sees play like Griselbrand.
No card gets banned before it sees play.

I think this is going to be one of those 'don't play this unless people are top tier, or actively want to be griefed'. Like time magic, Intruder Alarm, Skittles etc al.

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niheloim wrote:
No, I think he's right. I'm just all butt-hurt over prophet.


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 Post subject: Re: Paradox Engine 0_o
AgePosted: 2016-Dec-29 1:21 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
Bull wrote:
I'm hoping it gets banned before it sees play like Griselbrand.

That's never going to happen.

The card is going to be a solid pile of combo insanity. It fits into every deck due to being a colorless artifact, which is very reminiscent of Panoptic Mirror. I feel there's a possibility it could warp games, and more so metas if it takes off.

Still, there's too many variables to count at this point. No card is going to be banned before it sees print, because that's just not how things are done. We need to see its effect on games, not just speculation.

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 Post subject: Re: Paradox Engine 0_o
AgePosted: 2016-Dec-29 1:46 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
How broken is it, really? Yes, it gives your whole board pseudo-vigilance if you have spells to play... but it doesn't untap lands... is it really any more egregious than existing infinite mana combos? Will it make it easier to go infinite? Give me some examples of ways this makes things bad.

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 Post subject: Re: Paradox Engine 0_o
AgePosted: 2016-Dec-29 2:10 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
Sid the Chicken wrote:
...but it doesn't untap lands...

But it does untap all mana rocks and mana creatures, cards pretty much every deck has in some amount.

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 Post subject: Re: Paradox Engine 0_o
AgePosted: 2016-Dec-29 4:37 pm 

Joined: 2016-Aug-15 1:21 pm
Age: Drake
It looks like a significantly weaker version of Prophet, granted it can go in any deck because it's colorless. But it doesn't affect lands, doesn't have the protections of being a creature (Auras, Equipment), and it's effect requires doing something that some decks will be able to counter or even shut down (Grand Abolisher, Dragonlord Dromoka). Those trade offs might be enough to keep it off the ban list, but I'm not expecting to see anything done about it before it gets a chance to prove it's broken, because it has clear differences from Prophet.

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 Post subject: Re: Paradox Engine 0_o
AgePosted: 2016-Dec-29 5:13 pm 

Joined: 2014-Jul-26 11:35 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Its an interesting build around than can be broken if you want to but no more so that what we already have. People are over reacting a bit in this one and I'd be surprised if it is banned at all, let alone bammed preemptively.

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 Post subject: Re: Paradox Engine 0_o
AgePosted: 2016-Dec-29 6:22 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Jan-02 5:25 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Costa La Haya, capital del ducado Holanda
Weaker than Prophet? If you have no way to draw cards, maybe. This is rather an easy way to get storm, or glimpse elves.

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 Post subject: Re: Paradox Engine 0_o
AgePosted: 2016-Dec-29 8:14 pm 

Joined: 2008-Aug-08 6:34 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Rouen, France
I quite liked the in-thread suggestion of Sol Ring (or similiar 2+ mana rock) + Isochron Scepter + anything.

PS: Welcome back Bull.

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 Post subject: Re: Paradox Engine 0_o
AgePosted: 2016-Dec-29 10:16 pm 

Joined: 2014-Nov-08 6:37 am
Age: Hatchling
Just do what I am doing- buy 12 copies of each of null profusion, recycle and horn of greed.

Also buying on spec- grim feast and breathstealers crypt


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 Post subject: Re: Paradox Engine 0_o
AgePosted: 2016-Dec-30 1:07 am 

Joined: 2011-Sep-30 6:08 am
Age: Elder Dragon
This card really feels like a 5 mana Intruder Alarm. Trivially breakable. Fairly boring outside those obvious scenarios. Unlikely to be played to be played repeatedly in most groups. (Although we will definitely see a short-term spike in this type of deck.)

Moreover, I've never seen anybody try to break Jeskai Ascendancy in EDH, and this card is much less powerful (although I will admit it has a more permissive CI.)

I can see how this could potentially get banned if people go nuts with it, but I honestly think most people will get bored with their combos before that becomes necessary.

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 Post subject: Re: Paradox Engine 0_o
AgePosted: 2016-Dec-30 1:41 am 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
crokaycete wrote:
I can see how this could potentially get banned if people go nuts with it...

I'm curious to see what happens too. It may feel like a 5-mana Intruder Alarm, but it's also colorless which is kind of a big deal for an effect like that.
specter404 wrote:
Its an interesting build around than can be broken if you want to but no more so that what we already have. People are over reacting a bit in this one and I'd be surprised if it is banned at all, let alone bammed preemptively.

While there's some over-reaction, I don't think it's entirely unwarranted on this one. I think you are underrating how strong this card is by a little bit.
Drrakus wrote:
...but I'm not expecting to see anything done about it before it gets a chance to prove it's broken, because it has clear differences from Prophet.

This might be the only line in what you said which makes any sense, and I definitely agree it'll get at least some sunlight before any decision is made.

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 Post subject: Re: Paradox Engine 0_o
AgePosted: 2016-Dec-30 5:45 am 

Joined: 2016-Aug-15 1:21 pm
Age: Drake
Segrus wrote:
Drrakus wrote:
...but I'm not expecting to see anything done about it before it gets a chance to prove it's broken, because it has clear differences from Prophet.

This might be the only line in what you said which makes any sense, and I definitely agree it'll get at least some sunlight before any decision is made.


It looks to me like a card for pulling shenanigans on other peoples' turns (Dragonlord Dromoka and Grand Abolisher stop/shut down those sorts of shenanigans). And creatures are a lot easier to protect with things like Darksteel Plate and Shroud/Hexproof Enchantments. But I've never even seen Prophet used, so I probably don't know half the combos it could pull off.

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-Sharuum the Hegemon-Esper Artifact Themed Deck
-Karador, Ghost Chieftain-Kamigawa Spirit Reanimator Tribal Deck
-Zedruu the Greathearted-Predictability is Weakness Themed Deck
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 Post subject: Re: Paradox Engine 0_o
AgePosted: 2016-Dec-30 8:36 am 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
Drrakus wrote:
But I've never even seen Prophet used, so I probably don't know half the combos it could pull off.

Prophet itself isn't a combo piece - it's an enabler to obscene card advantage.

OK so so far I've seen "Go infinite with an Isochron Scepter and 2+ mana producing mana rock to get infinite spell on stick + possibly mana, requiring 4 cards. Hardly a world-shattering combo. Anyone got a better one?

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 Post subject: Re: Paradox Engine 0_o
AgePosted: 2016-Dec-30 9:15 am 
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Joined: 2010-Mar-12 3:20 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Intruder Alarm requires mana dorks, which tend to be a very bad strategy in commander, since creatures die a *lot* and also require a turn before they turn on.
This works with mana rocks, and is colorless to boot. *Any* buyback with a mana based buyback cost goes infinite with this and the requisite number of mana rocks/dorks.

My Gonti deck will end up going infinite off this and Corpse Dance several times, despite the fact that I will *not* be including this card in the deck. It'll either actually kill everyone with a sac outlet (which I don't play, but can steal) or "just" make infinite mana. (Six mana and I have all my creature back and infinite mana.)

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