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 Post subject: Overpowered lands
AgePosted: 2016-Dec-29 10:09 pm 

Joined: 2014-Nov-08 6:37 am
Age: Hatchling
I am a longtime fan of this format, but some things make zero sense to me.

We have banned tolarian academy, but the equally broken and insane counterparts, cradle and sanctum, are sitting pretty with no signs of banning.

Both can get rather disgusting in terms of mana oroduction, and realistically, should be banned.

Additionally, why in the hell is tabernacle legal?

There is no planet where this card isn't nuts to play ahagainst.

It's starting to feel like Iam going to have to include wasteland, strip mine, ghost quarter and expedition map in every commander deck.


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 Post subject: Re: Overpowered lands
AgePosted: 2016-Dec-30 12:52 am 

Joined: 2011-Sep-30 6:08 am
Age: Elder Dragon
While it isn't a perfect parallel, Legacy also bans Academy but not Sanctum or Cradle. The reason for this is simple: those cards aren't equally broken or insane.

What's the reason for the reason? Enchantments and Creatures don't have any parallel for Moxes, Mana Vault, Mana Crypt, Grim Monolith, or Sol Ring. It is shockingly easy to untap with 7 mana on turn 2 with Academy. It is next to impossible to do that with Cradle or Sanctum.

Cradle also relies on creatures, and Wrath effects are substantially more common than Shatter Storms. So, while Cradle has a similar top end to Academy, it is slower out of the gates and gets reset more often. (This is the same reason Nykthos is fine. Can sometimes tap for 8-10 mana, but is easily reset.)

Sanctum, frankly, is such a niche card that I think I've only seen it once or twice in EDH. Enchantress is just not that popular or powerful an archetype. Not remotely close to running roughshod over the format.

Tabernacle is legal because it's fine. It taxes non-token decks like 3 mana per turn in mid to late game and by that time is often easily eaten by an Acidic Slime or whatever.

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 Post subject: Re: Overpowered lands
AgePosted: 2016-Dec-30 8:04 am 

Joined: 2014-Jul-26 11:35 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Crokaycete has explained quite well but to put a summary point on. It is not enough to look at what the card does mechanically, you must also consider the way the card typically performs. In practice artifacts are more abusable, getting to double digit mana with academy and mana rocks in the first couple turns is easier than with cradle and birds

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 Post subject: Re: Overpowered lands
AgePosted: 2016-Dec-30 3:05 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
crokaycete wrote:
Sanctum, frankly, is such a niche card that I think I've only seen it once or twice in EDH. Enchantress is just not that popular or powerful an archetype. Not remotely close to running roughshod over the format.

It's really good with Heliod.

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 Post subject: Re: Overpowered lands
AgePosted: 2016-Dec-31 4:48 am 
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Joined: 2013-Jan-28 5:35 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Seattle
Why can I go into a store and buy a steak knife, but they wont sell me any nuclear warheads?


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 Post subject: Re: Overpowered lands
AgePosted: 2016-Dec-31 10:48 am 

Joined: 2012-Mar-31 11:52 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Swarm wrote:
Why can I go into a store and buy a steak knife, but they wont sell me any nuclear warheads?

Probably because you went to the wrong store.


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 Post subject: Re: Overpowered lands
AgePosted: 2016-Dec-31 11:27 am 
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Joined: 2010-Jul-18 9:59 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
cryogen wrote:
Swarm wrote:
Why can I go into a store and buy a steak knife, but they wont sell me any nuclear warheads?

Probably because you went to the wrong store.

I'd like to know which store you go to, Cryogen. For... reasons...

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 Post subject: Re: Overpowered lands
AgePosted: 2016-Dec-31 8:55 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Jan-02 5:25 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Costa La Haya, capital del ducado Holanda
I don't want to be the guy that says "play more removal", but eh, do you play enough removal? I agree that Cradle is absurd, but it's far from the most broken or annoying card in the format. My idea is that the perception of Cradle is skewed by its role in Elf combo, but playing singleton is very remote from chaining multiples.

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 Post subject: Re: Overpowered lands
AgePosted: 2017-Jan-01 7:18 am 

Joined: 2012-Mar-31 11:52 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Shabbaman wrote:
I don't want to be the guy that says "play more removal", but eh, do you play enough removal? I agree that Cradle is absurd, but it's far from the most broken or annoying card in the format. My idea is that the perception of Cradle is skewed by its role in Elf combo, but playing singleton is very remote from chaining multiples.

I think the format has sufficiently evolved to the point where almost every game will see at least one quality card of every type, and putting removal in your deck should be instinctive. Especially since Strip Mine, Tectonic Edge, or Ghost Quarter since all they take up is a land slot.
Viperion wrote:
cryogen wrote:
Swarm wrote:
Why can I go into a store and buy a steak knife, but they wont sell me any nuclear warheads?

Probably because you went to the wrong store.

I'd like to know which store you go to, Cryogen. For... reasons...

Nuclear Warheads 'r Us, obviously.


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 Post subject: Re: Overpowered lands
AgePosted: 2017-Jan-01 7:53 am 

Joined: 2014-Jul-26 11:35 am
Age: Elder Dragon
I often feel like the No MLD approach can be warped into a no LD approach where people are especially wary of anything that destroys land. I agree that at least one of strip, waste or ghost should be in every deck to give you the same chance of destroying cradle or cabal coffers or similar as they have of drawing it. Ghost quarter especially replaces the land so you are usually not even taking them down a land

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 Post subject: Re: Overpowered lands
AgePosted: 2017-Jan-02 8:11 am 
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Joined: 2011-Jan-02 5:25 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Costa La Haya, capital del ducado Holanda
cryogen wrote:
I think the format has sufficiently evolved to the point where almost every game will see at least one quality card of every type, and putting removal in your deck should be instinctive.


Removal yes, LD not so much.

specter404 wrote:
I often feel like the No MLD approach can be warped into a no LD approach where people are especially wary of anything that destroys land.


Something like that.

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 Post subject: Re: Overpowered lands
AgePosted: 2017-Jan-02 2:05 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
cryogen wrote:
Nuclear Warheads 'r Us, obviously.

I guess the obvious question here is "They sell STEAK KNIVES!?"

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 Post subject: Re: Overpowered lands
AgePosted: 2017-Jan-02 3:16 pm 

Joined: 2015-Jan-14 2:58 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Sid the Chicken wrote:
cryogen wrote:
Nuclear Warheads 'r Us, obviously.

I guess the obvious question here is "They sell STEAK KNIVES!?"


Sure. Depleted uranium ones for that spicy free neutron flavor in every bite.

Also, I just spent Christmas money on a Serena's Sanctum, so clearly it can't be banned.

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 Post subject: Re: Overpowered lands
AgePosted: 2017-Jan-03 4:51 am 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
Spectrar Ghost wrote:
Also, I just spent Christmas money on a Serena's Sanctum, so clearly it can't be banned.

A lot of people were angry about the Gifts Ungiven ban for that reason.

And you mean Serra's Sanctum.

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 Post subject: Re: Overpowered lands
AgePosted: 2017-Jan-03 11:11 am 

Joined: 2015-Jan-14 2:58 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Sid the Chicken wrote:
Spectrar Ghost wrote:
Also, I just spent Christmas money on a Serena's Sanctum, so clearly it can't be banned.

A lot of people were angry about the Gifts Ungiven ban for that reason.

And you mean Serra's Sanctum.


I certainly do. Damn autocorrect. I typed it right.

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Antis wrote:
I'm seriously suspicious of any card that makes Doubling Season look fair and reasonable.


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