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 Post subject: Re: So...Aetherflux Reservoir
AgePosted: 2017-Jan-13 8:51 am 
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Joined: 2015-Mar-24 8:21 pm
Age: Drake
kirkusjones wrote:
Basically what I'm saying is leave the poor card alone. I'm not going to win by turning creatures sideways in Ayli, so let me have my Death Star.

I enjoyed this lol


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 Post subject: Re: So...Aetherflux Reservoir
AgePosted: 2017-Jan-13 9:42 am 
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Joined: 2010-Oct-26 5:52 am
Age: Dragon
Sovarius wrote:
Gath Immortal wrote:
not particularly overpowered, just one more lame boring card for lame boring people who like lame boring win cons.

What is even interesting to you then?


casting Howl of the Horde with raid, copying it with riku, letting the copy resolve, twincasting the original and then casting eight copies of bribery (and copying all my stolen dudes with riku) or rites kicked/clone legion the scariest board with a doubling season out?

chain sacrificing creatures to Carrion Feeder with Reyhan, Last of the Abzan out to make a 60 power Master Biomancer, play Necroskitter and Retribution of the Ancients, wipe my opponents boards and gain control of their recently deceased dudes who all also trigger Cathar's Crusade?

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Maluko wrote:
We need a clear set of objective rules so that everybody always knows what to expect, and how to prepare for it. As of now, I think I spend more time arguing with players about the format than I do playing fun and interactive games of Commander. And last time I read, this was not the format's purpose.

QFT


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 Post subject: Re: So...Aetherflux Reservoir
AgePosted: 2017-Jan-13 12:26 pm 
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Joined: 2014-Jul-28 8:30 am
Age: Dragon
You're an intriguing human being, Gath. Doubling Season and Rite of Replication are, in my opinion, way more trite than the reservoir, though I will never play Ghave, Guru of Spores without Doubling Season. Plus, I play tutors and cutthroat Zur, so my opinion does not hold much weight here.

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specter404 wrote:
Basically, when it comes to commander, I want you to stab me through the heart, not cut off my balls.

Gath Immortal wrote:
Twenty Kavus and a Dream is not a legacy deck.


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 Post subject: Re: So...Aetherflux Reservoir
AgePosted: 2017-Jan-13 2:47 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Oct-26 5:52 am
Age: Dragon
kirkusjones wrote:
You're an intriguing human being, Gath. Doubling Season and Rite of Replication are, in my opinion, way more trite than the reservoir, though I will never play Ghave, Guru of Spores without Doubling Season. Plus, I play tutors and cutthroat Zur, so my opinion does not hold much weight here.


but I need the rites and doubling season to make forty copies of Zhur-Taa Ancient to do all the other dumb crap my riku deck can do! in any case, rites/season doesnt immediately end the game for someone in my riku deck unless it's their own creature or spell (Chancellor of the Spires) losing them the game. Reservoir doesn't get put in a deck without the intent to use it or at least the very real possibility of using it for it's purpose, which is instakilling players. Given my experience with Sid the Chicken's Brion deck, even in fair decks instakills feel lame as hell.

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Maluko wrote:
We need a clear set of objective rules so that everybody always knows what to expect, and how to prepare for it. As of now, I think I spend more time arguing with players about the format than I do playing fun and interactive games of Commander. And last time I read, this was not the format's purpose.

QFT


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 Post subject: Re: So...Aetherflux Reservoir
AgePosted: 2017-Jan-14 3:57 am 

Joined: 2015-Jan-14 2:58 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Aetherflux reservoir, in both decks I run it, is Best used as a threat first, a wincon if required. It's lifegain's equivalent of Mutually Assured Destruction. I have 63 life, so DO NOT attack me. Just don't.

Other than that it's a potent lifegain tool in it's own right. It's actually more useful just hanging around gaining life and not killing people, but not killing people in a deliberate manner that makes it clear the option is real.

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Antis wrote:
I'm seriously suspicious of any card that makes Doubling Season look fair and reasonable.


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 Post subject: Re: So...Aetherflux Reservoir
AgePosted: 2017-Jan-14 2:46 pm 

Joined: 2014-Sep-13 7:28 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Gath Immortal wrote:
casting Howl of the Horde with raid, copying it with riku, letting the copy resolve, twincasting the original and then casting eight copies of bribery (and copying all my stolen dudes with riku) or rites kicked/clone legion the scariest board with a doubling season out?

chain sacrificing creatures to Carrion Feeder with Reyhan, Last of the Abzan out to make a 60 power Master Biomancer, play Necroskitter and Retribution of the Ancients, wipe my opponents boards and gain control of their recently deceased dudes who all also trigger Cathar's Crusade?

I dont understand how those are that interesting if the end result still just resolving a 9 mana spell to make 10 of the best creature, or to ruin your opponents creatures and take them. I guess you have to work for the second but still


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 Post subject: Re: So...Aetherflux Reservoir
AgePosted: 2017-Jan-15 1:23 am 
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Joined: 2010-Oct-26 5:52 am
Age: Dragon
Sovarius wrote:
Gath Immortal wrote:
casting Howl of the Horde with raid, copying it with riku, letting the copy resolve, twincasting the original and then casting eight copies of bribery (and copying all my stolen dudes with riku) or rites kicked/clone legion the scariest board with a doubling season out?

chain sacrificing creatures to Carrion Feeder with Reyhan, Last of the Abzan out to make a 60 power Master Biomancer, play Necroskitter and Retribution of the Ancients, wipe my opponents boards and gain control of their recently deceased dudes who all also trigger Cathar's Crusade?

I dont understand how those are that interesting if the end result still just resolving a 9 mana spell to make 10 of the best creature, or to ruin your opponents creatures and take them. I guess you have to work for the second but still


because I didn't need one or two cards to do it with, it took time and effort to assemble and protect.

and it's interesting because it's a massive power play, but my opponents aren't dead, meaning they still have every opportunity to come back. Once someone is dead, just like in real life any potential they had for the game is over. I want huge epic battles and letting people live often accomplishes that.

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Maluko wrote:
We need a clear set of objective rules so that everybody always knows what to expect, and how to prepare for it. As of now, I think I spend more time arguing with players about the format than I do playing fun and interactive games of Commander. And last time I read, this was not the format's purpose.

QFT


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 Post subject: Re: So...Aetherflux Reservoir
AgePosted: 2017-Jan-15 4:49 am 
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Joined: 2014-Jul-28 8:30 am
Age: Dragon
But at some point the game has to end. There is a place (in my opinion) for those "game over" cards, because while epic plays are cool and all, the more games you're able to play, the better chance everyone has of pulling off their own epic plays. I would rather play three medium length games than one drawn out one. I find that once games pass the one hour mark, things start to go down-hill, fun-wise. But, that's just like, my opinion, man.

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specter404 wrote:
Basically, when it comes to commander, I want you to stab me through the heart, not cut off my balls.

Gath Immortal wrote:
Twenty Kavus and a Dream is not a legacy deck.


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 Post subject: Re: So...Aetherflux Reservoir
AgePosted: 2017-Jan-15 2:07 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
Spectrar Ghost wrote:
Other than that it's a potent lifegain tool in it's own right. It's actually more useful just hanging around gaining life and not killing people, but not killing people in a deliberate manner that makes it clear the option is real.

Once it reaches that point it comes down to who wants to take one for the team to get rid of you, because if no one does (and no one has Krosan Grip) eventually you just reach 151+ life and the game comes to a sudden end.

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"The President's job - and if someone sufficiently vain and stupid is picked he won't realize this - is not to wield power, but to draw attention away from it." -- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide tot he Galaxy Radio Transcripts predicting the future.


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 Post subject: Re: So...Aetherflux Reservoir
AgePosted: 2017-Jan-15 2:23 pm 

Joined: 2015-Jan-14 2:58 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Sid the Chicken wrote:
Spectrar Ghost wrote:
Other than that it's a potent lifegain tool in it's own right. It's actually more useful just hanging around gaining life and not killing people, but not killing people in a deliberate manner that makes it clear the option is real.

Once it reaches that point it comes down to who wants to take one for the team to get rid of you, because if no one does (and no one has Krosan Grip) eventually you just reach 151+ life and the game comes to a sudden end.


Sure. And watching the politics play out is a joy in itself. As you know, a table is perfectly able to ride individual self-interest to its doom, even when everyone sees it coming.

It reminds me of... something. I can't figure out what, but it feels topical.

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Deepglow Skate
Antis wrote:
I'm seriously suspicious of any card that makes Doubling Season look fair and reasonable.


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 Post subject: Re: So...Aetherflux Reservoir
AgePosted: 2017-Jan-15 2:44 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Oct-26 5:52 am
Age: Dragon
Spectrar Ghost wrote:
Sid the Chicken wrote:
Spectrar Ghost wrote:
Other than that it's a potent lifegain tool in it's own right. It's actually more useful just hanging around gaining life and not killing people, but not killing people in a deliberate manner that makes it clear the option is real.

Once it reaches that point it comes down to who wants to take one for the team to get rid of you, because if no one does (and no one has Krosan Grip) eventually you just reach 151+ life and the game comes to a sudden end.


Sure. And watching the politics play out is a joy in itself. As you know, a table is perfectly able to ride individual self-interest to its doom, even when everyone sees it coming.

It reminds me of... something. I can't figure out what, but it feels topical.


Someone having 151 life and Reservoir and a bunch of other people having no answers is not politics, it's the equivalent of being citizens Hiroshima, except you KNOW you're about to get atomic bombs dropped on you, and there ain't jack you can do about it.

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Maluko wrote:
We need a clear set of objective rules so that everybody always knows what to expect, and how to prepare for it. As of now, I think I spend more time arguing with players about the format than I do playing fun and interactive games of Commander. And last time I read, this was not the format's purpose.

QFT


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 Post subject: Re: So...Aetherflux Reservoir
AgePosted: 2017-Jan-15 3:57 pm 

Joined: 2015-Jan-14 2:58 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Gath Immortal wrote:

Someone having 151 life and Reservoir and a bunch of other people having no answers is not politics, it's the equivalent of being citizens Hiroshima, except you KNOW you're about to get atomic bombs dropped on you, and there ain't jack you can do about it.


You misunderstand. I'm talking about a table's ability to do nothing when something CAN be done, not when it's too late to stop. At Sid's hypothetical 63 life, for instance, forcing a Reservoir activation is a useful death. Holding on to a reservoir when you could wipe the table at any time is just pointless.

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Deepglow Skate
Antis wrote:
I'm seriously suspicious of any card that makes Doubling Season look fair and reasonable.


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 Post subject: Re: So...Aetherflux Reservoir
AgePosted: 2017-Jan-17 9:59 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Dec-13 6:01 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Washington D.C.
Gath Immortal wrote:
chain sacrificing creatures to Carrion Feeder with Reyhan, Last of the Abzan out to make a 60 power Master Biomancer, play Necroskitter and Retribution of the Ancients, wipe my opponents boards and gain control of their recently deceased dudes who all also trigger Cathar's Crusade?

This doesn't work. Necroskitter wants dead creatures to have -1/-1 counters, while Retribution of the Ancients doesn't give -1/-1 counters, it gives -X/-X.

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 Post subject: Re: So...Aetherflux Reservoir
AgePosted: 2017-Jan-20 6:48 am 
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Joined: 2010-Mar-12 3:20 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Sid the Chicken wrote:
(and no one has Krosan Grip)

Or Bind, Disallow, Interdict, Gilded Light, Reroute, Rust, Squelch, Stifle, Summary Dismissal, Timestop, Trickbind, Voidmage Husher, or Voidslime.
Or Deflecting Palm, Honorable Passage, Intervention Pact, Invulnerability, Pay No Heed, Reverse Damage, Riot Control, Rith's Charm, Samite Ministration, Selfless Squire, or Shadowbane.

The point is... if Reservoir is causing serious problems, there are answers to dying to it in every color except black. Several of them are also generally pretty good cards.
There is also the "just have more life then them" strategy.

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Current Commander Decks:
Alesha, She who Smiles at Death.....Atraxa, Praetors' Voice.....Eight-and-a-Half-Tails.....Gonti, Lord of Luxury.....Karametra, God of Harvests.....Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker.....Kozilek, the Great Distortion.....Prime Speaker Zegana.....Rubinia Soulsinger.....Thrasios, Triton Hero + Vial Smasher the Fierce

My general commander philosophy: Using your opponent's degenerate cards against them is far more satisfying than playing degenerate cards yourself.


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 Post subject: Re: So...Aetherflux Reservoir
AgePosted: 2017-Jan-20 2:34 pm 

Joined: 2014-Sep-13 7:28 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Gath Immortal wrote:
because I didn't need one or two cards to do it with, it took time and effort to assemble and protect.

And you think Aetherflux Reservoir just wins on it's own? Do you not need spells and to make sure it isn't destroyed?
Do you know how many spells you have to cast to gain enough life to Major Laser 3 opponents without dying yourself?

I'm just baffled, i don't really think this card is that good/easy to "win button" with.

Superstrength79 wrote:
Gath Immortal wrote:
chain sacrificing creatures to Carrion Feeder with Reyhan, Last of the Abzan out to make a 60 power Master Biomancer, play Necroskitter and Retribution of the Ancients, wipe my opponents boards and gain control of their recently deceased dudes who all also trigger Cathar's Crusade?

This doesn't work. Necroskitter wants dead creatures to have -1/-1 counters, while Retribution of the Ancients doesn't give -1/-1 counters, it gives -X/-X.

oh my god

kaldare wrote:
Sid the Chicken wrote:
(and no one has Krosan Grip)

Or Bind, Disallow, (et al)

Besides KGrip obviously having split second, i hope the people who fear this card also realize that regular removal also works before the Reservoir owner has 151 life. Unless they they gain 111 life before casting it, in which case there may be other problems to address...


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