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 Post subject: The Player Who Goes First Has Too Great An Advantage
AgePosted: 2017-Feb-02 3:36 am 

Joined: 2017-Feb-02 3:29 am
Age: Egg
Right now this is very unbalanced, especially due to the current status of sol ring.

My suggestion is this:
Person who goes first does not Draw, Person who goes second Scrys, and the person who goes third is the first player to draw.

In a four (or more) player game, the person who goes last is playing massive catch-up from turn one.

In a two player game, the rules would be the same as the are: First player does not draw, the second player does.

This would at least help to balance the massive advantage the first player has - especially in more competitive groups.


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 Post subject: Re: The Player Who Goes First Has Too Great An Advantage
AgePosted: 2017-Feb-02 4:47 am 

Joined: 2014-Feb-28 1:49 pm
Age: Wyvern
I disagree. This may be true in 1v1, but not in 4+ player games.

Being the second person to drop a Sol Ring is not worse than being the first.

Personally, I don't like going first in a 4-player game - it means your stuff is on the board first, and more likely to be targeted. Going first also means playing blind or being the aggressor (rather than retaliating, which is seen as more acceptable).

True there are situations where being first can allow you to "go off" a turn sooner making it harder to react - but those situations are usually indicative of the deck and the player mentality (I MUST win by turn 4!).


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 Post subject: Re: The Player Who Goes First Has Too Great An Advantage
AgePosted: 2017-Feb-02 5:59 am 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
The comprehensive rules already cover multiplayer. Since basically no competitive format is played multiplayer, those rules are necessarily designed for kitchen table games, where things like Sol Ring are already legal (where, in fact, EVERYTHING is legal). I'm pretty sure that if getting to draw and go first were as big an advantage as you're suggesting, someone would have noticed at WotC in the last 20 years.

Furthermore, there is nothing about EDH that makes the situation different.

So no to this.

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 Post subject: Re: The Player Who Goes First Has Too Great An Advantage
AgePosted: 2017-Feb-02 6:44 am 

Joined: 2014-Jul-26 11:35 am
Age: Elder Dragon
I can appreciate what you are trying to suggest however, I have seen no correlation between playing first and winning in an EDH setting. A large majority of the games I play do not have a lot going on in the first few turns, that's both in paper and on MTGO.

Sol Ring as the first player or as the 4th player has the same impact in my experience, so I am struggling to understand what you mean by the first player having a massive advantage, perhaps you could expand on this a bit more.

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 Post subject: Re: The Player Who Goes First Has Too Great An Advantage
AgePosted: 2017-Feb-02 10:01 am 
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Joined: 2010-Jul-18 9:59 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
specter404 wrote:
I have seen no correlation between playing first and winning in an EDH setting.

This, for me as well. The winner is not the player who goes first, most of the time (Sol Ring or no Sol Ring). In my experience table position has very little to do with who wins a game for games that go as long as the typical (i.e 4 person) Commander game goes for.

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 Post subject: Re: The Player Who Goes First Has Too Great An Advantage
AgePosted: 2017-Feb-04 9:11 am 
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Joined: 2016-May-16 12:03 pm
Age: Dragon
Location: The Blind Eternities
JordanStocker wrote:
Right now this is very unbalanced, especially due to the current status of sol ring.

My suggestion is this:
Person who goes first does not Draw, Person who goes second Scrys, and the person who goes third is the first player to draw.

In a four (or more) player game, the person who goes last is playing massive catch-up from turn one.

In a two player game, the rules would be the same as the are: First player does not draw, the second player does.

This would at least help to balance the massive advantage the first player has - especially in more competitive groups.


Go play french edh then if you dont like sol ring.

Anyway, the person who has the first turn doenst really have the much of an advantage and if anything is often the center of attention in regards to plays

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 Post subject: Re: The Player Who Goes First Has Too Great An Advantage
AgePosted: 2017-Feb-10 2:34 am 
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Joined: 2013-Aug-06 1:27 pm
Age: Drake
The person who goes first has a small advantage because of their tempo. Stopping them from drawing one card isn't going to change that.

Honestly, this is a casual format. I don't think we need to solve a competitive issue that wizards gave up fixing a long time ago.


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 Post subject: Re: The Player Who Goes First Has Too Great An Advantage
AgePosted: 2017-Feb-10 8:04 am 

Joined: 2014-Sep-13 7:28 am
Age: Elder Dragon
In 3+ player free for all, the first player is at a greater disadvantage than in 1v1, since that person has multiple opponents who have +1 card more than them.

The advantage of going first AND drawing a card does not seem to be larger than the disadvantage of going first WITHOUT also drawing a card.

The rules weren't arbitrarily or accidentally written this way.


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 Post subject: Re: The Player Who Goes First Has Too Great An Advantage
AgePosted: 2017-Feb-11 11:47 pm 

Joined: 2012-Jun-07 5:38 pm
Age: Drake
Sovarius wrote:
In 3+ player free for all, the first player is at a greater disadvantage than in 1v1, since that person has multiple opponents who have +1 card more than them.

The advantage of going first AND drawing a card does not seem to be larger than the disadvantage of going first WITHOUT also drawing a card.

The rules weren't arbitrarily or accidentally written this way.

^ This.
The advantage of going first is outweighed by being the first one with things to target/destroy/exile.
You will not always have a Sol Ring on turn 1, so anyone dropping one early enough will have a mana advantage over you. It happens, learn to adapt to this.
The larger the game, the more necessary it would HAVE to be for the first player to also draw a card. Anyone who thinks that the person who goes first shouldn't draw a card in a 3 player game is crazy, let alone in a 6-7+ player game.


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