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 Post subject: Will we see the ban of cards $1k and over?
AgePosted: 2017-Feb-16 10:26 am 

Joined: 2017-Feb-16 10:18 am
Age: Hatchling
I'm curious whether the community thinks we will eventually be seeing the ban of the cards which have crossed the $1000 threshold, things like: Timetwister, Mishra's workshop, and Tabernacle at pendrell vale.

On the one hand these cards are very powerful and out of budget for most players to acquire. However, due to their rarity/price they are generally kept out of most metas and don't really impact gameplay because of this.

Do these cards currently cause any issues within your local meta? Should they be banned or are they too narrow in their application?


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 Post subject: Re: Will we see the ban of cards $1k and over?
AgePosted: 2017-Feb-17 2:58 am 
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Joined: 2006-Dec-31 12:26 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
No, they won't be banned.

This kind of thing has been discussed over and over. The cards are either especially narrow, or they often have cheaper replacements (perhaps not 100% equivalents, but reasonable facsimiles of the effects the cards have (ABU Duals & Timetwister are like this))

You never need these expensive cards to have fun - which is the main goal of the format. If you feel you need these cards to have fun, then likely the format is not geared towards your kind of mindset.


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 Post subject: Re: Will we see the ban of cards $1k and over?
AgePosted: 2017-Feb-17 3:01 am 
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Joined: 2006-May-24 10:14 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Tampa, FL, USA
Plus, it would require constant attention to the secondary market. Do you unban it if it dips below? The idea is way more trouble than it's worth.

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 Post subject: Re: Will we see the ban of cards $1k and over?
AgePosted: 2017-Feb-17 4:25 am 

Joined: 2009-Jul-02 4:25 pm
Age: Drake
Two out of those three cards have pretty reasonable analogs too. Timetwister and Day's Undoing might as well be the exact same card in a lot of decks, and Tabernacle has a Magus of it and also Pendrell Mists. Optimization aside, if you want an effect, you can generally get that effect for cheaper than the most expensive version. Workshop is kind of an exception, but it is also pretty limited in its application and its effect isn't different enough from the other crazy mana rocks to really be worth worrying about.

Also the "oohs and ahs" aspect of non-auto-include money cards is pretty sweet. The fact that you don't need them to compete (even in a cutthroat meta) combined with their relative rarity in most playgroups affords them this kind of epic status that is really cool to watch when someone shows up with one.


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 Post subject: Re: Will we see the ban of cards $1k and over?
AgePosted: 2017-Feb-18 12:41 am 

Joined: 2017-Feb-16 10:18 am
Age: Hatchling
Thanks for the replies. It is nice to know that players will be safe with their investments.It is what I figured as most of those expensive cards don't really break the game - at least from what I've seen when played.

I ended up buying a workshop last night - HP but also heavily discounted for my Karn deck :)


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 Post subject: Re: Will we see the ban of cards $1k and over?
AgePosted: 2017-Mar-09 2:16 am 

Joined: 2015-Sep-02 2:49 am
Age: Drake
Location: Connecticut
You can get vintage moxen for less than the biggest Commander price offenders. I just looked up Mox Ruby and Mox Emerald and those are running under $700.00. Makes revisiting the concept of the prohibitive cost standard worth considering.


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 Post subject: Re: Will we see the ban of cards $1k and over?
AgePosted: 2017-Mar-09 3:47 am 
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Joined: 2006-Dec-31 12:26 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Baron Cappuccino wrote:
Makes revisiting the concept of the prohibitive cost standard worth considering.

The prohibitive cost what?

You do realize that the banning guidelines aren't solely about prohibitive costs, right?

Also - we've had this discussion not too long ago. It doesn't seem like this guideline is going anywhere.


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 Post subject: Re: Will we see the ban of cards $1k and over?
AgePosted: 2017-Mar-09 5:49 am 

Joined: 2013-Aug-20 4:37 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Boston
Baron Cappuccino wrote:
Makes revisiting the concept of the prohibitive cost standard worth considering.

The full criterion is "perceived barrier to entry." It isn't just cost (though that is a part of it), but that the cards are seen as must haves. If legal, moxen would clearly go in every deck of the appropriate color(s), and you'd be gimping yourself if you didn't run them. That is what PBTE is about. Even if you are driven off of running an artifact deck because you don't have a 'shop, you aren't excluded from the whole format.

Sheldon wrote:
Creates a Perceived High Barrier to Entry. Commander is a socially welcoming format with a vast cardpool. These two traits clash when it comes to certain early Magic cards, even if they would possibly be acceptable in their game play. It's not enough that the card is simply expensive. It must also be something that would be near-universally played if available and contribute to a perception that the format is only for the Vintage audience.
Emphasis mine.


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 Post subject: Re: Will we see the ban of cards $1k and over?
AgePosted: 2017-Mar-09 10:46 am 

Joined: 2014-Jul-26 11:35 am
Age: Elder Dragon
*Sigh*
Read this:
http://mtgcommander.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18491
Then come back if you still think there is more to be added to the discussion. Honestly, that topic is not even very far down the list, we covered all of this very recently.

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 Post subject: Re: Will we see the ban of cards $1k and over?
AgePosted: 2017-Apr-05 4:17 am 

Joined: 2013-Mar-15 8:39 am
Age: Dragon
Location: Canada, Ontario
specter404 wrote:
*Sigh*
Read this:
http://mtgcommander.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18491
Then come back if you still think there is more to be added to the discussion. Honestly, that topic is not even very far down the list, we covered all of this very recently.


That and there aren't enough of those cards seen often in play to cause a massive un-fun effect to the format. The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale I've played a few times against this card, and it wasn't very fun. However this was the first time in years I've seen one in play. Sure the card is ridiculously powerful (0 mana cost and forces your players to spend mana to keep creatures) but there aren't enough of these cards seeing play to cause a massive issues like Sylvan Primordial or Prophet of Kruphix which can be found fairly easy and picked up fairly cheap from any card shop.

Personally I think (my opinion and not actual fact) that the guys in charge of the ban list like playing with stuff like The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale so we probably won't see any of them being banned until there is massive amounts of complaints flooding the forums.

Also note that I currently run a custom made foil of The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale and people hate it when it hits the field. They like the art but hate the effect. Their tears taste so delicious! :twisted:


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 Post subject: Re: Will we see the ban of cards $1k and over?
AgePosted: 2017-Apr-05 9:04 am 

Joined: 2009-Jul-02 4:25 pm
Age: Drake
I played a game recently where I landed a Tabernacle, and the next guy forgot to pay for his creatures. He got really salty and said something along the lines of "Must be nice knowing you can spend $1000 to win every game." So I untapped and cast Pendrell Mists and said, "Here, is this one better? It's only like $5." :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Will we see the ban of cards $1k and over?
AgePosted: 2017-Apr-06 1:13 am 
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Joined: 2006-Dec-31 12:26 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
majikal wrote:
I played a game recently where I landed a Tabernacle, and the next guy forgot to pay for his creatures. He got really salty and said something along the lines of "Must be nice knowing you can spend $1000 to win every game." So I untapped and cast Pendrell Mists and said, "Here, is this one better? It's only like $5." :lol:

:facepalm: :lol: Very nice. Timing sounds amazing :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Will we see the ban of cards $1k and over?
AgePosted: 2017-Apr-26 3:23 pm 

Joined: 2017-Apr-26 3:08 pm
Age: Hatchling
So personally I would love to see some more expensive cards banned, but price alone isn't a good argument. The number of players playing those cards, and relative power level they have above other much cheaper cards is effectively negligible.

You could build a much stronger case for banning Gaea's Cradle ($200-$250) than you could for many of the cards which breach $1k. Also if anyone wanted to ban Gaea's Cradle, I wouldn't complain. Dunno if I would rally behind you actively, but I'd secretly wave my little "go you!" flag.


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