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MTG Commander/Elder Dragon Highlander • View topic - Expropriate: a new banworthy card?

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 Post subject: Re: Expropriate: a new banworthy card?
AgePosted: 2019-Feb-02 9:45 am 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire

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 Post subject: Re: Expropriate: a new banworthy card?
AgePosted: 2019-Feb-04 6:59 am 

Joined: 2012-Apr-11 7:17 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Hopefully Josh and other members of the CAG bring forth stuff like the most recent episode of Game Knights to show why it should be banned.


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 Post subject: Re: Expropriate: a new banworthy card?
AgePosted: 2019-Feb-04 7:10 am 
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Joined: 2010-Jul-18 9:59 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
You can't ban cards just because they win games. That way lies madness.

Besides it was the combination of Planar Portal --> Emrakul, Expropriate, and two other extra turn spells that won that game. And terrible, horrible, no good, very bad threat assessment by everyone else at the table.

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 Post subject: Re: Expropriate: a new banworthy card?
AgePosted: 2019-Feb-04 7:14 am 
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Magic cards are allowed to be good. Excellent even.

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 Post subject: Re: Expropriate: a new banworthy card?
AgePosted: 2019-Feb-05 7:21 am 

Joined: 2012-Apr-11 7:17 am
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 Post subject: Re: Expropriate: a new banworthy card?
AgePosted: 2019-Feb-05 8:29 am 

Joined: 2012-Mar-31 11:52 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Is the card centralizing though?


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 Post subject: Re: Expropriate: a new banworthy card?
AgePosted: 2019-Feb-05 9:07 am 

Joined: 2012-Apr-11 7:17 am
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 Post subject: Re: Expropriate: a new banworthy card?
AgePosted: 2019-Feb-05 9:47 am 

Joined: 2012-Mar-31 11:52 am
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 Post subject: Re: Expropriate: a new banworthy card?
AgePosted: 2019-Feb-05 10:27 am 
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Joined: 2014-Jul-28 8:30 am
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Aren't we the format of big, splashy, game ending spells? Would you expect anything less powerful/splashy for 9 mana? I know people find ways around the casting cost. My friend plays it in Jhoira. It's a beating. But 9 times out of ten, it ends the game and we play again.

If you want long, drawn out games that end with Rube-Goldberg-Heart-of-the-Cards combos or creature damage, that's cool too. But this format should also be a home for big, splashy "I Win" buttons too. If you don't like them, you can pick up your deck and sit down at another table, play the arch-enemy game and go after the expropriate player or have a conversation with said individual.


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 Post subject: Re: Expropriate: a new banworthy card?
AgePosted: 2019-Feb-05 10:55 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Expropriate: a new banworthy card?
AgePosted: 2019-Feb-05 1:18 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Expropriate: a new banworthy card?
AgePosted: 2019-Feb-05 7:21 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Expropriate: a new banworthy card?
AgePosted: 2019-Mar-17 12:13 pm 
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Joined: 2010-May-09 10:39 am
Age: Elder Dragon
I have never seen this card in our Commander meta.
The comp people are just casting Ad Nauseam to win on turn 2-4, or doing obnoxious stuff.
The casual people are just recurring Strip Mine/Wasteland/Cycle lands from Life from the Loam or Crucible or playing Seizan Group Hug.

There are many, many other cards I'd bad before Expro. I mean, we'll just Jokulhaups and Splendid Reclamation before it becomes an issue. :p

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 Post subject: Re: Expropriate: a new banworthy card?
AgePosted: 2019-Mar-21 4:14 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Expropriate: a new banworthy card?
AgePosted: 2019-Mar-25 7:32 am 
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Age: Elder Dragon
Expropriate has two issues.

The first is the same issue that every extra turn card has... they're a little obnoxious by their very nature, and that can be *greatly* amplified when people play them without having any kind of plan and/or when played by people who are already slow players. But slow players are *always* annoying, and there are a *lot* of types of effects that make the game worse when played without a plan. Some of them are quite frankly a *lot* worse than extra turns in this respect. (Armageddon anyone?) Frankly, when played by a reasonable player who has a plan and plays at a reasonable pace, an extra turn here should not be a problem. One of the thorniest issues with Extra Turns IMHO is recursion... and Expropriate thankfully exiles itself, mostly avoiding this issue. In that regard, an Expropriate is, in my experience, *less* likely to ruin a game of commander played by people with good threat assessment than a Time Warp, because the Time Warp is almost certain to happen multiple times, while the Expropriate is rather unlikely to.

The second issue lies with the "good threat assessment" I mention above. Expropriate should very seldom give it's caster more than one extra turn, but bad decision making by inexperienced players can make it spiral out of control rather quickly. But again... there are a *lot* of cards that can exploit bad/selfish decision making by a player or two to wreak the game. Expropriate isn't unique in that regard, and it also costs a lot more mana (and $ for that matter) then most such cards, meaning it's not going to happen as often or as early. (Tempt with Discovery was Notorious for ruining games in my area before people finally learned to not give the caster 5+ lands on turn 3.

Overall, Expropriate is very powerful, somewhat annoying on its face, and has the potential to ruin games if people make poor decisions... but it's also a 9 drop that self-exiles and it's pretty easy to learn how to make it *not* break games if it becomes prevalent. It's certainly on my list of "Evil" commander cards (I try to limit myself to 1 such card per deck), but I wouldn't even consider it as being worthy of a serious banhammer discussion, let alone an actual banning. I can think of over a dozen cards that are far worse offenders then Expropriate.

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Alesha, She who Smiles at Death.....Atraxa, Praetors' Voice.....Eight-and-a-Half-Tails.....Gonti, Lord of Luxury.....Karametra, God of Harvests.....Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker.....Kozilek, the Great Distortion.....Prime Speaker Zegana.....Rubinia Soulsinger.....Thrasios, Triton Hero + Vial Smasher the Fierce

My general commander philosophy: Using your opponent's degenerate cards against them is far more satisfying than playing degenerate cards yourself.


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