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 Post subject: Re: Edh is dead - fix your banlist or make a secondary one
AgePosted: 2017-Aug-04 2:11 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
mike325 wrote:
Can you please explain to me how does World Fire becomes banned and Protagenius and Door to Nothingness isn't? I'm not complaining I am just trying to figure this out. World Fire exiles everything and reduces life to 1 on every player. Door to Nothingness tap two of all 5 color mana and you win the game. Protagenius pro everything all you can do is give him negative counters to kill him. I am searching for this answer because it doesn't make any sense to me. Thank You.

EDH is intended for multi-player. Door to Nothingness does not win a multiplayer game by simply activating it. It eliminates one player. And requires a 5-color deck, and requires 10 mana. And if you want to do it all in the same turn you need 15 mana plus the ability to untap it somehow... all to eliminate one of your several opponents.

I won't add to the reasons already given that progenitus isn't the problem you've made it out to be.

Worldfire reads "7RRRRR - Everyone has one life and I have Zo-zu. GG?".

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 Post subject: Re: Edh is dead - fix your banlist or make a secondary one
AgePosted: 2017-Aug-05 2:32 am 

Joined: 2009-Apr-21 3:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Palm Springs Area, CA
Crud zo-zu... My first inclination with worldfire was to suspend Arc Blade. Zo-zu is much better.

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 Post subject: Re: Edh is dead - fix your banlist or make a secondary one
AgePosted: 2017-Aug-05 7:42 am 

Joined: 2010-Oct-26 5:52 am
Age: Dragon
papa_funk wrote:
This never stops being relevant: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=6821


https://www.reddit.com/r/EDH/comments/6 ... _edh_very/

https://www.reddit.com/r/EDH/comments/6 ... th_combos/

https://www.reddit.com/r/EDH/comments/6 ... o_fix_edh/

or maybe you're just not in touch with whats going on in the format anymore. Sounds lately like there's a lot of toxic fumes and no shark infested custard and the scott evils are running around with AK47s gunning down a bunch of guys in flashy suits with no kevlar.

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Maluko wrote:
We need a clear set of objective rules so that everybody always knows what to expect, and how to prepare for it. As of now, I think I spend more time arguing with players about the format than I do playing fun and interactive games of Commander. And last time I read, this was not the format's purpose.

QFT


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 Post subject: Re: Edh is dead - fix your banlist or make a secondary one
AgePosted: 2017-Aug-05 3:37 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Feb-07 4:15 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Gath Immortal's First Source wrote:
It's become abundantly clear at this point that the extreme majority of Magic players, at least that I've interacted with in the past six months, are less interested in forming fun playgroups, thrilling games and cherished memories, and more interested in staring at their hand and trying not to speak up or draw attention so that they can tutor for the other piece of their two-card infinite combo on turn 4 to win on turn 5.


Gath Immortal's First Source wrote:
I feel like I'm starting to not enjoy EDH, or perhaps Magic, anymore... and it's a really sucky feeling, because it seems to stem from a lack of understanding of my fellow players and why they enjoy the game. I don't think my idea of fun aligns with others' idea of fun.


Explain what the RC can do to fix ^those problems. Because ultimately the infinite combos and shit are merely symptoms. And as I've mentioned before, infinite combos aren't even the most powerful win con in truly tuned metas. 5 color Hermit Druid deck, the poster child for overpowered combo decks, usually wins via Laboratory Maniac. And most mana denial/lockdown decks don't use infinite combos except as maybe a way to close out the game after creating a won gamestate.

Your second link is literally just someone asking for decklist help, saying "Hey, my Meren deck wins with infinite combos and I don't want that anymore. Suggestions?" I don't see how it's at all relevant.

Your third link appears to be in response to the first, and it's pretty much a houserule suggestion.


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 Post subject: Re: Edh is dead - fix your banlist or make a secondary one
AgePosted: 2017-Aug-05 6:01 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Jan-02 5:25 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Costa La Haya, capital del ducado Holanda
Uktabi_Kong wrote:
And most mana denial/lockdown decks don't use infinite combos except as maybe a way to close out the game after creating a won gamestate.


Yes, lets all play Stasis to make the world a better place :cry:

Boredom with *random subject you've obsessed over for years* is pretty common. Your life and your environment changes over the years. Since I started playing M:TG I graduated high school/college, moved to a different city, got a master's degree, started living together, moved to another city again, started working fulltime, stopped with track & field, became fat, old and still handsome, bought a house, got two children. Somewhere in that timeline (around dec. 20th, 2010) I lost interest in competitive magic, and somewhere in that timeline I picked up EDH. The people around me have similar timelines, and while these events didn't make me lose interest in M:TG, it sure did for other people. When these changes are not in sync, you may perceive the world as "odd". For instance, in my bubble of friends we were more or less the first to get a baby. That doesn't really match with people still partying their butts of twice a week. By the time our second one arrived in the world, the metagame was very different. So perhaps what you are perceiving as a change of the world's perception of EDH is just your own changes in your filter bubble, dunno.

Unless you're really, really old, then you're probably going through menopause or retirement.

;)

I don't know you, and I'm not judging you. But insinuating the RC is out of touch with reality seems very odd to me, knowing that some in the RC are travelling the world playing M:TG, which is their reality. That seems like a pretty diverse play environment to me.

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 Post subject: Re: Edh is dead - fix your banlist or make a secondary one
AgePosted: 2017-Aug-18 9:49 am 
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Joined: 2010-May-09 10:39 am
Age: Elder Dragon
RichardCardfield wrote:
I registered on your forum to tell you your banlist allows far too many infinite combos and infinite combos effectively killed your format. We had a lot of fun with your format, and I still believe it's the best format for casual groups. But you have been very very lazy.

We have now reached a meta wherein combo decks cannot be stopped.

There's is NO WAY aggro or control can win a 4 player game. So basically this format has turned into a 'everyone dead by turn 6' nonsense fest. It's boring and frankly a tragedy. Why haven't you stopped this? Why is something like Jarad (general) + phyrexian devourer allowed? You do know it can be played from the graveyard, right?

I just wanted to let you know your format is dead where I live.


I've won a 3-person table with my Duel Commander Zurgo deck. No Sol ring, no Crypt, no Strip, just damge to the face to the face nonstop. Price of Progress for 16-20, move on to the next game.
If that doesn't work, slap some swords on a Gisela or whatnot. You can 100% win with an aggressive strategy. If your opponents are comboing out, play with Null Rod, Kataki, Suppression Field, Arcane Lab, etc. Metagame to your opponents.

The RC can't fix your meta, you need to do that with your friends, by talking to them and moving on to new strategies.

_________________
Generals:
Jasmine Boreal - Flower power! Nature/Justice/Retribution themed casual fun.
Radha, Heir to Keld - All white-bordered!
Xantcha, Sleeper Agent - cEDH discard/attrition.
Pre-Modern:
A Denying Wind.
Duel Commander:
Nissa, Vastwoord Seer - Ramp ramp ramp into Ugin+Painter's Servant.
Kari Zev, Skyship Raider - Unbridled Aggro

Find me Saturdays at the Wizard's Tower - Ottawa and occasional Mondays at Westboro Legion for Duel Commander.


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 Post subject: Re: Edh is dead - fix your banlist or make a secondary one
AgePosted: 2017-Aug-19 2:19 am 
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Joined: 2016-Nov-27 2:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
CrazyPierre wrote:
I've won a 3-person table with my Duel Commander Zurgo deck. No Sol ring, no Crypt, no Strip, just damge to the face to the face nonstop. Price of Progress for 16-20, move on to the next game.
If that doesn't work, slap some swords on a Gisela or whatnot. You can 100% win with an aggressive strategy. If your opponents are comboing out, play with Null Rod, Kataki, Suppression Field, Arcane Lab, etc. Metagame to your opponents.

The RC can't fix your meta, you need to do that with your friends, by talking to them and moving on to new strategies.


Last night my table got destroyed by a 12/3 Zurgo with double strike, extra combat phases, and a clean board thanks to a Blasphemous Act nobody could stop. :)

They did pretty well!

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Decks: Chaos colored dragons, Mathas, the Instigator (politics and mayhem).
Beloved precons: Atraxa, Praetors' Voice; Saskia the Unyielding; Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury.


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 Post subject: Re: Edh is dead - fix your banlist or make a secondary one
AgePosted: 2017-Aug-29 3:10 pm 

Joined: 2012-Apr-11 7:17 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Gath Immortal wrote:
or maybe you're just not in touch with whats going on in the format anymore. Sounds lately like there's a lot of toxic fumes and no shark infested custard and the scott evils are running around with AK47s gunning down a bunch of guys in flashy suits with no kevlar.

So we switch to the Punisher, and give up on Batman? Or do we find a Joker and a Penguin?

Let the Scott Evils do so, jerks exist in every walk of life, we should not change for them.

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sir squab wrote:
My... history of buying Magic cards is probably a tapestry of bad financial decisions >_>
niheloim wrote:
No, I think he's right. I'm just all butt-hurt over prophet.


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 Post subject: Re: Edh is dead - fix your banlist or make a secondary one
AgePosted: 2017-Aug-30 1:33 am 
EDH Rules Committee
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Joined: 2006-May-24 10:14 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Tampa, FL, USA
For a format that's dead, there sure does seem to be a lot of talk about it.

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"Leave the gun. Take the cannolis."


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 Post subject: Re: Edh is dead - fix your banlist or make a secondary one
AgePosted: 2017-Aug-30 4:52 am 

Joined: 2009-Apr-21 3:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Palm Springs Area, CA
Sheldon wrote:
For a format that's dead, there sure does seem to be a lot of talk about it.

It must the funeral then, where everyone says nice things in public but talks crap in private conversations.

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 Post subject: Re: Edh is dead - fix your banlist or make a secondary one
AgePosted: 2017-Aug-30 5:10 am 
EDH Rules Committee
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Joined: 2006-May-24 10:14 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Tampa, FL, USA
niheloim wrote:
Sheldon wrote:
For a format that's dead, there sure does seem to be a lot of talk about it.

It must the funeral then, where everyone says nice things in public but talks crap in private conversations.


Don't forget to fill our your memorial cards.

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 Post subject: Re: Edh is dead - fix your banlist or make a secondary one
AgePosted: 2017-Nov-05 2:22 pm 
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Joined: 2015-Mar-24 8:21 pm
Age: Drake
RichardCardfield wrote:
I registered on your forum to tell you your banlist allows far too many infinite combos and infinite combos effectively killed your format. We had a lot of fun with your format, and I still believe it's the best format for casual groups. But you have been very very lazy.

We have now reached a meta wherein combo decks cannot be stopped.

There's is NO WAY aggro or control can win a 4 player game. So basically this format has turned into a 'everyone dead by turn 6' nonsense fest. It's boring and frankly a tragedy. Why haven't you stopped this? Why is something like Jarad (general) + phyrexian devourer allowed? You do know it can be played from the graveyard, right?

I just wanted to let you know your format is dead where I live.


Guys, guys, the easiest solution is right there. House rules are encouraged. If you're so smart, make a new house rule banlist and let us know what it is and how it works out. :D

I mean you could argue that players would want to play with a house ruled banlist, but if the format is as dead in your area as you let on then surely they'd want to try something new (since your playgroup clearly has no restraint).

Or is it that all people want to do is play combo, the format in your area is fine but you just don't like combo?


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 Post subject: Re: Edh is dead - fix your banlist or make a secondary one
AgePosted: 2017-Nov-06 6:12 am 

Joined: 2012-Mar-31 11:52 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Proof that the format is dead! How else could you have such powerful necromancy?


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 Post subject: Re: Edh is dead - fix your banlist or make a secondary one
AgePosted: 2017-Nov-07 1:52 am 

Joined: 2015-Apr-23 11:27 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Antwerp, Belgium
Actually, although I don't agree with his conclusions, I understand OP's frustration very well.

House rules, friendly chats with naughty deckbuilders and the very mature '' I'm not gonna play with you anymore'' attitude are all just fine in a somewhat fixed group where the social interaction is as important as the game itself. Give all that a try when you're in a local game store, don't really know other players very well, and are not exactly gifted with the talent of rhetorics. In those cases, the basic EDH rules are all you can fall back to. Try argueing with a douche who hides behind the excuse "The rules committee didn't ban the card, it must be fine to play it then. So quit whining". I'm lucky to belong to a group where there is quite a bit of room for criticizing eachothers deckbuilding and play style, so the game stays fun for every one.

Arguements in posts above are true: ban card A, and the douche players are gonna make your game just as miserable using card B, because the player is the problem, not the card. That's just an inherent problem of this format I'm afraid. In Standard, or even modern, the card pool is much more limited, and banlist updates are frequent to keep those formats healthy, but that's not possible in EDH.

We tried something to regulate overpowered, unfun decks a while back, and it was an eye opening experience: after game 1, everybody puts their deck in the middle of the table, and the guy who died first gets first pick for game two, second dead guy gets second pick, and so on. Fighting your own deck, with a bit of added spite, shows you exactly what people dislike about your decks :-)


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 Post subject: Re: Edh is dead - fix your banlist or make a secondary one
AgePosted: 2017-Nov-14 9:55 am 
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Joined: 2013-Oct-26 9:21 am
Age: Dragon
Location: Xenia, OH, USA
Nigerian Prince wrote:
Try argueing with a douche who hides behind the excuse "The rules committee didn't ban the card, it must be fine to play it then. So quit whining".


We *had* a guy like this in my LGS where I run a non-competitive league. People refused to play with him, because he was not only building decks way overpowered for the meta, but also being a sanctimonious dick about it. Then it came to light that he only started playing at my LGS because all the other LGSs banned him because he got DCI banned for cheating in a tournament qualifier at one of the local LGSs. Needless to say, we was no longer welcome in our league.


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