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 Post subject: Re: Edh is dead - fix your banlist or make a secondary one
AgePosted: 2017-Dec-15 2:06 pm 

Joined: 2016-Apr-25 1:50 am
Age: Hatchling
Aye, there is stuff that should be banned but when it comes to meta you must adapt. Everyone in mine, except me, has at least a combo in their decks, it's cutthroat as hell and the mana curves tend to go up to cmc 4 and nothing higher. What did i do? Stax, heavy on discard and land destruction. That's how you deal with combo.


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 Post subject: Re: Edh is dead - fix your banlist or make a secondary one
AgePosted: 2018-Feb-13 5:49 pm 

Joined: 2011-Mar-07 1:41 am
Age: Drake
Sadly I feel that edh is dying in my social groups and shops, and if nothing changes the group is going to keep shrinking.

We've been moving towards primarily playing commander cube, which helps erase most of the balance issues, but I miss how excited everyone was to play edh and show off new decks rat were creative and fun, the format needs another big shake up, even bigger than the color identity changes.

Any suggestions on how how to improve things please share.

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 Post subject: Re: Edh is dead - fix your banlist or make a secondary one
AgePosted: 2018-Feb-13 8:02 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Jan-02 5:25 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Costa La Haya, capital del ducado Holanda
potatomonkey38 wrote:
Sadly I feel that edh is dying in my social groups and shops, and if nothing changes the group is going to keep shrinking.

We've been moving towards primarily playing commander cube, which helps erase most of the balance issues, but I miss how excited everyone was to play edh and show off new decks rat were creative and fun, the format needs another big shake up, even bigger than the color identity changes.

Any suggestions on how how to improve things please share.


The usual answer is "the social contract", but I guess that is not what you are looking for. Try house rules.

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 Post subject: Re: Edh is dead - fix your banlist or make a secondary one
AgePosted: 2018-Feb-13 10:06 pm 

Joined: 2013-Jun-23 10:18 am
Age: Elder Dragon
potatomonkey38 wrote:
Sadly I feel that edh is dying in my social groups and shops, and if nothing changes the group is going to keep shrinking.

We've been moving towards primarily playing commander cube, which helps erase most of the balance issues, but I miss how excited everyone was to play edh and show off new decks rat were creative and fun, the format needs another big shake up, even bigger than the color identity changes.

Any suggestions on how how to improve things please share.


No rule set can fix this sort of problem, especially as EDH isn't supposed to be "balanced" in the ordinary sense. Talk to your groups.

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Current Commanders: 6/32.

Daretti, Scrap Savant (Red Artefacts).
Ephara, God of the Polis (Azorius Men O'War)
Rubinia Soulsinger (Bant Polymorphs).
Kess, Dissident Mage (Grixis Treasure).
Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper (Jund Apostles).
Mathas, Fiend Seeker (Mardu Judo).


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 Post subject: Re: Edh is dead - fix your banlist or make a secondary one
AgePosted: 2018-Feb-14 9:33 am 

Joined: 2011-Mar-07 1:41 am
Age: Drake
Swmystery wrote:
potatomonkey38 wrote:
Sadly I feel that edh is dying in my social groups and shops, and if nothing changes the group is going to keep shrinking.

We've been moving towards primarily playing commander cube, which helps erase most of the balance issues, but I miss how excited everyone was to play edh and show off new decks rat were creative and fun, the format needs another big shake up, even bigger than the color identity changes.

Any suggestions on how how to improve things please share.


No rule set can fix this sort of problem, especially as EDH isn't supposed to be "balanced" in the ordinary sense. Talk to your groups.



Tried house rules, house ban lists of all shapes and sizes, tried group discussions, one on one talks, nothing works for long. I'm running out of ideas of what I can do on my end.

It makes me sad that I don't want to play new people anymore. The last time I played with a new group of people my deck was exiled turn 3 and I was asked to move since I wasn't in the game anymore.

The level of toxicity that's accumulated is nothing like how edh used to or should be. I don't see how without fundamental changes from the top things can get better.

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 Post subject: Re: Edh is dead - fix your banlist or make a secondary one
AgePosted: 2018-Feb-14 10:25 am 
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Joined: 2012-Feb-07 4:15 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
I don't see how the things you've described can be fixed with changes from the top.


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 Post subject: Re: Edh is dead - fix your banlist or make a secondary one
AgePosted: 2018-Feb-14 11:18 am 

Joined: 2012-Apr-11 7:17 am
Age: Elder Dragon
potatomonkey38 wrote:
Tried house rules, house ban lists of all shapes and sizes, tried group discussions, one on one talks, nothing works for long. I'm running out of ideas of what I can do on my end.
What is the issue you are trying to solve? Fast combo decks ? Are other people having a good time, or do you all have this same feeling? How many turns are games going?
Quote:
The level of toxicity that's accumulated is nothing like how edh used to or should be. I don't see how without fundamental changes from the top things can get better.
What kind of change would you like to see?

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No, I think he's right. I'm just all butt-hurt over prophet.


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 Post subject: Re: Edh is dead - fix your banlist or make a secondary one
AgePosted: 2018-Feb-14 1:32 pm 

Joined: 2011-Mar-07 1:41 am
Age: Drake
MRHblue wrote:
potatomonkey38 wrote:
Tried house rules, house ban lists of all shapes and sizes, tried group discussions, one on one talks, nothing works for long. I'm running out of ideas of what I can do on my end.
What is the issue you are trying to solve? Fast combo decks ? Are other people having a good time, or do you all have this same feeling? How many turns are games going?
Quote:
The level of toxicity that's accumulated is nothing like how edh used to or should be. I don't see how without fundamental changes from the top things can get better.
What kind of change would you like to see?


One card combos like tooth and nail, and the super fast ones definitely are the worst offenders for making the games miserable.

And the feelings are pretty universal, all the circles I play in are down to a fraction of what they were.

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 Post subject: Re: Edh is dead - fix your banlist or make a secondary one
AgePosted: 2018-Feb-14 10:38 pm 

Joined: 2013-Jun-23 10:18 am
Age: Elder Dragon
potatomonkey38 wrote:
MRHblue wrote:
potatomonkey38 wrote:
Tried house rules, house ban lists of all shapes and sizes, tried group discussions, one on one talks, nothing works for long. I'm running out of ideas of what I can do on my end.
What is the issue you are trying to solve? Fast combo decks ? Are other people having a good time, or do you all have this same feeling? How many turns are games going?
Quote:
The level of toxicity that's accumulated is nothing like how edh used to or should be. I don't see how without fundamental changes from the top things can get better.
What kind of change would you like to see?


One card combos like tooth and nail, and the super fast ones definitely are the worst offenders for making the games miserable.

And the feelings are pretty universal, all the circles I play in are down to a fraction of what they were.


So most of your group aren't happy with a certain style of play, you've tried talking to them about changing their style of play, and they...just carry on playing in the way that makes everyone miserable? Something doesn't add up here.

If the feelings are pretty universal, why aren't people just cutting the Tooth and Nails and other combos and doing something else?

_________________
Current Commanders: 6/32.

Daretti, Scrap Savant (Red Artefacts).
Ephara, God of the Polis (Azorius Men O'War)
Rubinia Soulsinger (Bant Polymorphs).
Kess, Dissident Mage (Grixis Treasure).
Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper (Jund Apostles).
Mathas, Fiend Seeker (Mardu Judo).


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 Post subject: Re: Edh is dead - fix your banlist or make a secondary one
AgePosted: 2018-Feb-15 3:31 pm 

Joined: 2011-Mar-07 1:41 am
Age: Drake
Swmystery wrote:

So most of your group aren't happy with a certain style of play, you've tried talking to them about changing their style of play, and they...just carry on playing in the way that makes everyone miserable? Something doesn't add up here.

If the feelings are pretty universal, why aren't people just cutting the Tooth and Nails and other combos and doing something else?


Since we play at a shop new people come in all the time, and play those type of combos, people get bitter about being wrecked, and add those combos to their own decks, eventually we decide as a group to not play those specific cards, then the cycle begins anew.

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 Post subject: Re: Edh is dead - fix your banlist or make a secondary one
AgePosted: 2018-Feb-15 4:51 pm 

Joined: 2012-Apr-11 7:17 am
Age: Elder Dragon
potatomonkey38 wrote:
Since we play at a shop new people come in all the time, and play those type of combos, people get bitter about being wrecked, and add those combos to their own decks, eventually we decide as a group to not play those specific cards, then the cycle begins anew.

Is there no discussion with new people who sit down?

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sir squab wrote:
My... history of buying Magic cards is probably a tapestry of bad financial decisions >_>
niheloim wrote:
No, I think he's right. I'm just all butt-hurt over prophet.


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 Post subject: Re: Edh is dead - fix your banlist or make a secondary one
AgePosted: 2018-Feb-16 6:30 am 

Joined: 2011-Mar-07 1:41 am
Age: Drake
MRHblue wrote:
potatomonkey38 wrote:
Since we play at a shop new people come in all the time, and play those type of combos, people get bitter about being wrecked, and add those combos to their own decks, eventually we decide as a group to not play those specific cards, then the cycle begins anew.

Is there no discussion with new people who sit down?


If that happens it's after the first game usually

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 Post subject: Re: Edh is dead - fix your banlist or make a secondary one
AgePosted: 2018-Feb-16 8:40 am 
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Joined: 2006-Dec-31 12:26 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Seems like you just need to strike up that conversation earlier then.

How big is your group? I mean, so long as you don't mind possibly annoying people, it's not hard to say "Hey, we as a group don't like combo finishes, do you have a deck that doesn't have any?" You can then approach it as a way of trying to be inclusive, but also showing what's going to make it a not-fun time for your "regulars"

If there's only 2 or 3 of you who feel that way then I can see it being harder to maintain. But, if you really want to play the game in a way that you find fun, you may have to be willing to play smaller games until other people decide they want to play by the same guidelines that you and your friends are (so long as it seems like you guys are having fun.)


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 Post subject: Re: Edh is dead - fix your banlist or make a secondary one
AgePosted: 2018-Feb-16 1:11 pm 

Joined: 2015-Dec-22 4:41 am
Age: Drake
As long as a format adopts a "The player is the problem, not the rules" mentality, there will always be some toxicity between players. There's not much to be done about that.

My LGS adopts a point system and gives prizes to the players with the most points. Perhaps you could establish one among your regular playgroup and play a series of games. The problem from there, of course, becomes how you make winning the series worthwhile outside a tournament-esque environment. Maybe the Rules Committee can come up with such a point system and officially endorse it on their website--not as an official rule or anything but as a suggestion for playgroups who play regularly.

The solution to a problem with the rules of any broken game should attempt to amoral-ize the gameplay and make it fun for everyone.

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 Post subject: Re: Edh is dead - fix your banlist or make a secondary one
AgePosted: 2018-Feb-18 8:19 am 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
MMLgamer wrote:
As long as a format adopts a "The player is the problem, not the rules" mentality, exists there will always be some toxicity between players. There's not much to be done about that.


FTFY. #cynicism

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