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 Post subject: Re: Edh is dead - fix your banlist or make a secondary one
AgePosted: 2018-Oct-03 8:08 am 

Joined: 2016-Jun-29 3:47 pm
Age: Hatchling
Viperion wrote:
Rockinroland wrote:
EDH isn’t a turn-sideways format. It just isn’t.

Also Rockinroland wrote:
if you don’t combo off then you’re facing your own death from an eldrazi horde

Ummm.... you realise you're flat-out contradicting yourself here?

Sure, turning dudes sideways is less good when your dudes are x/1's and your opponents have a total combined life total of 120, but you can definitely win by turning a lot of dudes sideways (See: Elves/Goblins/Soldiers) or turning big dudes sideways (like Mayael decks)

EDH is not a combo-centric format. It's not an anything-centric format, which is why it's so damn good.



Let me elaborate: Those hordes are obtained via synergy, which I did point out. They are not cast turn by turn but instead use engines to bring them in early and en masse, the same as combos use card synergy to obtain a win condition some other way such as self-mill or X spells.


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 Post subject: Re: Edh is dead - fix your banlist or make a secondary one
AgePosted: 2018-Oct-03 8:35 am 
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Joined: 2010-Jul-18 9:59 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Counterpoint: Edgar Markov is one of the most powerful commanders out there at the moment and basically all it does is pump out dudes and turn them sideways. Sure, he makes more dudes, but that's not "synergy" by any reasonable definition, that's just making more dudes.

My Edric deck wins by pumping out a ton of evasive dudes from Turn 1 until people stop twitching. My Wort, Boggart Auntie deck does the same.

(Counterpoint to my own counterpoint; Anax and Cymede try to do this with soldiers, and it's not as effective)

"Turning dudes sideways" is a perfectly good way to win a Commander game, and you don't need combo/synergy effects (because let's face it "synergy" - when pushed to its extreme- is just another word for "combo") to make it good.

Likewise, synergy/combo decks are also a perfectly good way to win a Commander game. But I refute your point that you need combo to win.

All decks need synergy between their cards. Two draft pools smushed together isn't going to win you any games. But a coherent strategy with a plan will win games, whether the plan is "combo off", "assemble the unstoppable machine of unstoppable value" or "turn dudes sideways"

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 Post subject: Re: Edh is dead - fix your banlist or make a secondary o
AgePosted: 2018-Oct-03 3:39 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Jan-02 5:25 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Costa La Haya, capital del ducado Holanda
Elvish Piper plus a card is hardly a combo. Find a way to put your hand into play with Elvish Piper, that is a combo. But even then, playing Genesis Wave is likely easier and more effective.

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 Post subject: Re: Edh is dead - fix your banlist or make a secondary one
AgePosted: 2018-Oct-04 10:27 am 
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Joined: 2010-Oct-26 5:52 am
Age: Drake
Viperion wrote:
Rockinroland wrote:
EDH isn’t a turn-sideways format. It just isn’t.

Also Rockinroland wrote:
if you don’t combo off then you’re facing your own death from an eldrazi horde

Ummm.... you realise you're flat-out contradicting yourself here?

Sure, turning dudes sideways is less good when your dudes are x/1's and your opponents have a total combined life total of 120, but you can definitely win by turning a lot of dudes sideways (See: Elves/Goblins/Soldiers) or turning big dudes sideways (like Mayael decks)

EDH is not a combo-centric format. It's not an anything-centric format, which is why it's so damn good.


what he's getting at is that cheating value dudes out for free or making a huge token board out of a single creature like avenger and casting a global pump spell is basically the order of the day for 50% of decks that turn sideways, the rest being one shot voltron decks all of which are pretty much combo. The only difference between avenger craterhoof and kiki conscripts is one might actually give you a turn to respond if there's no haste outlet on board.

Are there more traditional 60 card style combat decks that work? sure, but they're the exception, not the rule.

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Maluko wrote:
We need a clear set of objective rules so that everybody always knows what to expect, and how to prepare for it. As of now, I think I spend more time arguing with players about the format than I do playing fun and interactive games of Commander. And last time I read, this was not the format's purpose.

QFT


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