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 Post subject: Add reserve list on next ban list
AgePosted: 2017-Aug-27 4:05 am 

Joined: 2017-Aug-27 4:02 am
Age: Hatchling
Current reserve list price have going up nonstop and it getting hard for player to getting those card to play in commander.
Is that possible adding the whole reserve list into next ban list ? :oops:


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 Post subject: Re: Add reserve list on next ban list
AgePosted: 2017-Aug-27 6:08 am 
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Joined: 2012-Sep-19 1:30 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
That's a bad idea.
There are plenty of reserve list cards that aren't all that good or powerful, but people like to play for nostalgia reasons. Most of those aren't even very expensive. There is no reason to ban cards simply because of what sets they were printed in (which is pretty much what a blanket "reserve list ban" would equate to).

Even the more expensive cards shouldn't get automatically banned in commander - price should never be a primary factor in banning a card. If you have that as your benchmark for banning, you start to have to keep an eye on changes in the secondary market to determine your banlist. Additionally, prices of cards are affected by format legality, including Commander legality - so what do you do if a card is "too expensive" for commander, but once you ban it the price goes down and it is no longer a "too expensive" card? Do you unban it, then re-ban it with the next banlist update since it's gone back to too expensive, again?

Simply put, if they aren't breaking the format they should stay legal for play, regardless of reserve list or secondary market price factors.

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 Post subject: Re: Add reserve list on next ban list
AgePosted: 2017-Aug-27 7:10 am 
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If I'm not mistaken, it's been said by the Rules Committee they don't ever intend to ban a card on price again. The only reason it is still listed is because there are some cards currently banned which fall under it.

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 Post subject: Re: Add reserve list on next ban list
AgePosted: 2017-Aug-27 1:25 pm 

Joined: 2016-Feb-13 2:14 pm
Age: Dragon
Location: Orlando, Florida
mika wrote:
Current reserve list price have going up nonstop and it getting hard for player to getting those card to play in commander.
Is that possible adding the whole reserve list into next ban list ? :oops:

Because cards can be expensive isn't an argument for banning. Have you looked at the reserve list at all? The vast majority of those cards barely scrape a dollar anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: Add reserve list on next ban list
AgePosted: 2017-Aug-27 3:06 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Aug-06 1:54 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: USA
Marit Lage wrote:
mika wrote:
Current reserve list price have going up nonstop and it getting hard for player to getting those card to play in commander.
Is that possible adding the whole reserve list into next ban list ? :oops:

Because cards can be expensive isn't an argument for banning. Have you looked at the reserve list at all? The vast majority of those cards barely scrape a dollar anyway.

Well... they used to. A lot of Reserved List buyouts this summer (and last summer) by some crazy MTG investors have made dozens of bulk RL cards into non-bulk prices. This could very well be OP's reason for posting (a little more-so than duals, tabernacle, Moat, etc).

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 Post subject: Re: Add reserve list on next ban list
AgePosted: 2017-Aug-27 6:50 pm 

Joined: 2011-Feb-15 7:09 am
Age: Drake
In a way card inflation is reassuring, it means magic is healthy and popular and won't go away tomorrow. As a commander player I try to use standard and modern cards to my advantage, trading up for eternal cards where opportunities arise and be prepared to trade literally anything that isn't RL to get there.

The other thing is to buy the RL card as soon as you can. If you know you want it but are worried about the cost one thing is certain, the cost is rising (which is why my Bayou cost me 100% extra, lesson learned).


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 Post subject: Re: Add reserve list on next ban list
AgePosted: 2017-Aug-27 7:43 pm 

Joined: 2017-Aug-27 4:02 am
Age: Hatchling
TheDoctor wrote:
Marit Lage wrote:
mika wrote:
Current reserve list price have going up nonstop and it getting hard for player to getting those card to play in commander.
Is that possible adding the whole reserve list into next ban list ? :oops:

Because cards can be expensive isn't an argument for banning. Have you looked at the reserve list at all? The vast majority of those cards barely scrape a dollar anyway.

Well... they used to. A lot of Reserved List buyouts this summer (and last summer) by some crazy MTG investors have made dozens of bulk RL cards into non-bulk prices. This could very well be OP's reason for posting (a little more-so than duals, tabernacle, Moat, etc).


Current market only player will buy those bulk cards are commander player only. the buy out is so simple nowaday you can see a card rocket up from $1 to $ 50 in 1 night due to low supply. 5 year later we might find some $1 card at $ 100.


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 Post subject: Re: Add reserve list on next ban list
AgePosted: 2017-Aug-27 8:45 pm 

Joined: 2016-Feb-13 2:14 pm
Age: Dragon
Location: Orlando, Florida
mika wrote:
Current market only player will buy those bulk cards are commander player only. the buy out is so simple nowaday you can see a card rocket up from $1 to $ 50 in 1 night due to low supply. 5 year later we might find some $1 card at $ 100.

Card prices don't drive the ban list. Just because a card becomes expensive doesn't mean it's going to get banned. Candelabra of Tawnos is a great example of a very expensive card that will never see the axe. I suggest looking at the ban philosophy for commander. It'll shed some light into how cards are banned.

EDIT:
Here's the link: http://forum.mtgcommander.net/EDH_Forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=12254


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 Post subject: Re: Add reserve list on next ban list
AgePosted: 2017-Aug-27 11:06 pm 

Joined: 2017-Aug-27 4:02 am
Age: Hatchling
Marit Lage wrote:
mika wrote:
Current market only player will buy those bulk cards are commander player only. the buy out is so simple nowaday you can see a card rocket up from $1 to $ 50 in 1 night due to low supply. 5 year later we might find some $1 card at $ 100.

Card prices don't drive the ban list. Just because a card becomes expensive doesn't mean it's going to get banned. Candelabra of Tawnos is a great example of a very expensive card that will never see the axe. I suggest looking at the ban philosophy for commander. It'll shed some light into how cards are banned.

EDIT:
Here's the link: http://forum.mtgcommander.net/EDH_Forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=12254


After read the link, Reserved List meeting both or the criteria.
* Problematic Casual Omnipresence - A lot Reserved list card are auto include in commander deck. Example : dual land.
* Creates a Perceived High Barrier to Entry - Reserved List keeping player to getting the card for casual playing as the high price and low availability.

Hope the rule committee able raise a red flag on this issue.


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 Post subject: Re: Add reserve list on next ban list
AgePosted: 2017-Aug-27 11:21 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Jan-02 5:25 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Costa La Haya, capital del ducado Holanda
You're misinterpreting both criteria.

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 Post subject: Re: Add reserve list on next ban list
AgePosted: 2017-Aug-27 11:56 pm 
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Joined: 2006-Dec-31 12:26 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
mika wrote:
* Problematic Casual Omnipresence - A lot Reserved list card are auto include in commander deck. Example : dual land.

First, you're reading it wrong - it's not if it's an "auto include" that it falls under that criteria.

Secondly, I laugh (to myself usually) at people who think they need ABU dual lands for commander. I specifically took them out of my commander decks to demonstrate that they aren't needed. I have *never* missed them.

There are plenty of alternatives out there (in both artifact & land varieties), and since you usually have a few turns to establish yourself, you often can just raw-draw the mana you need to cover all your colours in a few turns.

mika wrote:
* Creates a Perceived High Barrier to Entry - Reserved List keeping player to getting the card for casual playing as the high price and low availability.

See above -- you don't need to run the ABU dual lands -- so they aren't a barrier to entry. And the more they print new dual land types, the less benefit the ABU duals provide (and when you compare the benefit they provide vs their cost .... you shouldn't bother with them in Commander.)


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 Post subject: Re: Add reserve list on next ban list
AgePosted: 2017-Aug-28 1:51 am 

Joined: 2009-Apr-21 3:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Palm Springs Area, CA
Is this discussion because of ABU Duals?

I'll also chime in... You don't need them. I would argue that something like Fetid Heath is far more powerful than a Scrubland even when we consider fetches.


Now, if we're complaining about the price of Moat... I'll join in. I'm super bummed. It would fit perfectly in my Isperia All flying deck. Teferi's Moat just isn't the same. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Add reserve list on next ban list
AgePosted: 2017-Aug-28 1:52 am 
EDH Rules Committee

Joined: 2006-May-18 5:21 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
The Perceived Barrier to Entry criteria is about entering the format, not about deck optimization. If you are determined to build an optimized deck, we aren't going to stop you, but we're not going to do anything to make it easier.

You'll see the duals banned long before you'll see the rest of the reserve list banned. And I wouldn't hold my breath for that, either. You don't need duals to play Commander.

(Minor clarification for Segrus: we consider it highly unlikely that another card gets banned for PBtE, but we haven't ruled out the possibility entirely. It just seems hard to envision.)


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 Post subject: Re: Add reserve list on next ban list
AgePosted: 2017-Aug-28 2:34 am 

Joined: 2017-Aug-27 4:02 am
Age: Hatchling
niheloim wrote:
Is this discussion because of ABU Duals?

I'll also chime in... You don't need them. I would argue that something like Fetid Heath is far more powerful than a Scrubland even when we consider fetches.


Now, if we're complaining about the price of Moat... I'll join in. I'm super bummed. It would fit perfectly in my Isperia All flying deck. Teferi's Moat just isn't the same. :)

Sorry for the bad example given, how About we look into some card such as Phelddagrif and Tuknir Deathlock their are nearly double in 1 year.

A friend found a City of Solitude in my commander collection and after found out is on reserve list i refuse to let it go due to the next when i need the card i need ship from oversea.

Why not move the game out from a small card list that can easy buyout by few person.


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 Post subject: Re: Add reserve list on next ban list
AgePosted: 2017-Aug-28 2:40 am 

Joined: 2009-Jul-02 4:25 pm
Age: Drake
mika wrote:
Why not move the game out from a small card list that can easy buyout by few person.

Because then the terrorists win? Because this format was specifically created to be a place where you can play all your old stuff that you can't play in other formats?


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