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 Post subject: Re: Double Gaea's Cradel? Maybe a ban on the old one?
AgePosted: 2017-Sep-14 9:53 pm 
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Age: Dragon
cryogen wrote:
specter404 wrote:
There is a reason that they made a new cradle and not a new tolarian academy. Gaea's cradle is fine. It was annoying that fair token decks and high creature count decks couldn't get one cheaply, but this alternative means the budget decks get a cradle 2.0 and the tuned decks get the OG as well.

I think new cradle is a great addition to the format, in fact all of the new flip into lands cards look like fun.

TBF, Tolarian Academy would probably be fine too if it had some sort of restriction as to when you could start using it. IIRC, the issue was that it was creating too much mana too quickly, not just that it created too much mana.


Color shift academy into red. So that red can have a decent legendary land aside from Valakut. Seriously though, an artifact from this block that flipped into a red academy would be pretty great. Maybe something like:
Artifact 2
Metal Detector
1: discard a card, create a colorless Treasure artifact token with tap: sacrifice this artifact: add one mana of any color to your mana pool.
If this is the third time you have resolved this ability this turn, transform metal detector
//
El Dorado, Lost City of Riches
Tap: add one red to your mana pool for each artifact you control

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 Post subject: Re: Double Gaea's Cradel? Maybe a ban on the old one?
AgePosted: 2017-Sep-14 10:29 pm 

Joined: 2012-Mar-31 11:52 am
Age: Elder Dragon
You made Kher Keep cry.


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 Post subject: Re: Double Gaea's Cradel? Maybe a ban on the old one?
AgePosted: 2017-Sep-14 10:58 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Feb-07 4:15 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Also Valakut isn't legendary.

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 Post subject: Re: Double Gaea's Cradle? Maybe a ban on the old one?
AgePosted: 2017-Sep-15 3:29 am 
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Uktabi_Kong wrote:
Also Valakut isn't legendary.


Holy crap, you're right. I just assumed because of the proper name usage.

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specter404 wrote:
Basically, when it comes to commander, I want you to stab me through the heart, not cut off my balls.

Gath Immortal wrote:
Twenty Kavus and a Dream is not a legacy deck.


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 Post subject: Re: Double Gaea's Cradle? Maybe a ban on the old one?
AgePosted: 2017-Sep-15 1:05 pm 
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Location: Midgard
kirkusjones wrote:
Uktabi_Kong wrote:
Also Valakut isn't legendary.


Holy crap, you're right. I just assumed because of the proper name usage.

It not being legendary allowed Scapeshift decks to create OHKOs. In decks I build with Valakut, I try to include Vesuva and Thespian's Stage.

I don't think I would mind Academy being in red. Breya would have loved that.

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 Post subject: Re: Double Gaea's Cradle? Maybe a ban on the old one?
AgePosted: 2017-Sep-15 3:16 pm 

Joined: 2009-Apr-21 3:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Palm Springs Area, CA
Wouldn't you still get the triggers off of multiple legendary Valakuts put into play with Scapeshift? You would just need to deal with the legend rule before placing the triggers on the stack...

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 Post subject: Re: Double Gaea's Cradle? Maybe a ban on the old one?
AgePosted: 2017-Sep-15 10:06 pm 

Joined: 2016-Feb-13 2:14 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Orlando, Florida
Segrus wrote:
It not being legendary allowed Scapeshift decks to create OHKOs.

Even if Valakut was legendary, it would still cause lethal triggers with Prismatic Omen or enough mountains.


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 Post subject: Re: Double Gaea's Cradle? Maybe a ban on the old one?
AgePosted: 2017-Sep-15 10:43 pm 
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Location: Midgard
Yeah, I suppose that's true, you'd still get the triggers. Maybe Wizards just didn't think Valakut wouldn't be strong enough in draft without allowing you to have out multiples of them at the same time?

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 Post subject: Re: Double Gaea's Cradle? Maybe a ban on the old one?
AgePosted: 2017-Sep-15 11:23 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Feb-07 4:15 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
They did it with the entire cycle of Zendikar rare nonbasics. Cards who's names imply legendary-ness but aren't. Oran-Rief, the Vastwood, Magosi, the Waterveil, Emeria,
the Sky Ruin
, and Crypt of Agadeem

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 Post subject: Re: Double Gaea's Cradle? Maybe a ban on the old one?
AgePosted: 2017-Sep-16 12:56 pm 

Joined: 2009-Apr-21 3:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Palm Springs Area, CA
Yeah. That was a flavor fail. Did wizards ever explain why they went non-legendary?

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 Post subject: Re: Double Gaea's Cradle? Maybe a ban on the old one?
AgePosted: 2017-Sep-16 6:47 pm 

Joined: 2015-Mar-04 12:43 am
Age: Drake
niheloim wrote:
That was a flavor fail. Did wizards ever explain why they went non-legendary?

Actually, Maro answered this a few times on his blog (here's a recent entry: Blogatog).

The decision is not based on flavour, it's about the rules. They don't make a land Legendary if they want you to be able to play multiples (in 60-card formats obviously).
And before the Legendary rule change (when you could remove a Legendary permanent controlled by your opponent by playing your own), they had stopped doing them entirely.


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 Post subject: Re: Double Gaea's Cradle? Maybe a ban on the old one?
AgePosted: 2017-Sep-18 2:30 pm 

Joined: 2009-Apr-21 3:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Palm Springs Area, CA
I figured Mark Rosewater would have had something to say about it. Regardless of the rules however, its still a flavor fail. If Wizards want to make lands that run in multiples they need to be flavored as a land that can exist on the battlefield as a multiple.

They've done a number of interesting and unique lands that weren't legendary. Murmuring Bosk could have been a legendary land and given a flavor to match. It could have been:

Doran's Summer Home/Cousin
Legendary Land- Forest

T: add some mana that G, B or W... the last two hurt a little.

But nope... it was meant to be run as 4-of in decks. Valakut could have been just a Molten Pinnacle.

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 Post subject: Re: Double Gaea's Cradle? Maybe a ban on the old one?
AgePosted: 2017-Sep-18 8:11 pm 

Joined: 2015-Mar-04 12:43 am
Age: Drake
Yes, I agree with you, Niheloim.
They have gotten better at this in the recent years, I think.


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 Post subject: Re: Double Gaea's Cradle? Maybe a ban on the old one?
AgePosted: 2017-Sep-19 12:08 am 
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Joined: 2006-Dec-31 12:26 pm
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They fully understood it was a flavor fail -- but they were saying that gameplay trumped flavor in this case. It was an intentional decision.


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 Post subject: Re: Double Gaea's Cradle? Maybe a ban on the old one?
AgePosted: 2017-Sep-25 3:08 am 
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Joined: 2017-Mar-11 6:43 am
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My question... is why, though? Ixalan also has a toned down Cavern of Souls (which is really a stronger riff on Boseiju anyways.) Does that mean Cavern should be banned too? It's an oppressively powerful land that inordinately allows tribal decks to get too far ahead against Blue decks- and decks tend to include a fairly ridiculous number of tutors for it.

Point is, from the perspective of someone who has had to roll their eyes at gold-bordered Gaea's Cradles- having a worse Cradle floating around that can be safely reprinted in the future isn't bad for the game or format at all- and I highly doubt the redundancy is going to matter much in healthy playgroups- since GC tends to just eat Strip Mines, and the new one takes time to turn on.

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