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 Post subject: Ashnod's Coupon
AgePosted: 2017-Dec-04 2:28 am 

Joined: 2017-Dec-04 2:21 am
Age: Egg
Many players are probably excited about the silver-bordered temporary unban! I myself am a bit indifferent on the topic as my playgroup has been using silver-border for fun for a while as a you may only include one silver-border per deck. We had intended to increase this number to 15 for the release of the new set, but I suppose this is no longer needed. Of course, our group will continue to ignore the banning of some of our favorite cards, the "Double" cycle, but I wouldn't want to make an argument there. However, Ashnod's Coupon seems to be a bit snuffed out here.

I am not entirely sure why Ashnod's Coupon has been banned. It's very easy to say target drink needs to be targeted the same as any other thing. As such, you need to be able to point to it and say the obvious name. Then a player has to get you the drink. You have to pay all costs associated, so there shouldn't be any problems there.

I guess my biggest question would be, if anyone involved in the decision to make a small banlist reads this, why exactly did Ashnod's Coupon get the axe?

Discuss.


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 Post subject: Re: Ashnod's Coupon
AgePosted: 2017-Dec-04 4:29 am 
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Joined: 2006-Dec-31 12:26 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Whoompashigit wrote:
I am not entirely sure why Ashnod's Coupon has been banned. It's very easy to say target drink needs to be targeted the same as any other thing. As such, you need to be able to point to it and say the obvious name.

Those aren't the rules on targeting. Which may be why you're confused on that part.

Typically, a valid target is something on the battlefield -- unless the card in question specifies otherwise. As drinks are not objects on the battlefield, this can obviously target something not on the battlefield.

Otherwise - there's no real restriction on what it can target. You can target a bottle of water at the gas station 5km away -- then what does your opponent do? Sure, you have to pay costs, but you've just disrupted the game as the person goes to buy you a bottle of water.

And I've heard of logical issues with targeting an alcoholic drink for an under age person to get you. Sure you have to pay for it - but nowhere that sells alcohol should let that person receive the drink to give to you -- so when what do you do?


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 Post subject: Re: Ashnod's Coupon
AgePosted: 2017-Dec-04 4:45 am 
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Joined: 2011-Jan-02 5:25 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Costa La Haya, capital del ducado Holanda
It's probably banned because either:
a) the RC dislikes drinks
b) Ashnod's Coupon is broken with R&D's secret lair.

In my experience drinks don't interact poorly with the format at all, yet the RC banned the only two cards with silver borders I care about. Without Lair I'd say coupon seems harmless. Surely targeting a minor and an alcoholic beverage is illegal to begin with!

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 Post subject: Re: Ashnod's Coupon
AgePosted: 2017-Dec-04 5:40 am 
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Joined: 2006-May-24 10:14 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Tampa, FL, USA
Mostly it's because there are people with mobility issues (like us old folks), for whom getting up for drinks is problematic. There are other physical action cards (like Side to Side), but we didn't expect they'd see that much action. We encourage everyone to use good judgment for when you might not want to play such cards.

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 Post subject: Re: Ashnod's Coupon
AgePosted: 2017-Dec-04 11:47 am 

Joined: 2012-Mar-31 11:52 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Shabbaman wrote:
It's probably banned because either:
a) the RC dislikes drinks
b) Ashnod's Coupon is broken with R&D's secret lair.

In my experience drinks don't interact poorly with the format at all, yet the RC banned the only two cards with silver borders I care about. Without Lair I'd say coupon seems harmless. Surely targeting a minor and an alcoholic beverage is illegal to begin with!

You've clearly never had someone spill a soda on the table during an EDH game. :P


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 Post subject: Re: Ashnod's Coupon
AgePosted: 2017-Dec-04 12:21 pm 
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Joined: 2016-Nov-27 2:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Shabbaman wrote:
It's probably banned because either:
a) the RC dislikes drinks
b) Ashnod's Coupon is broken with R&D's secret lair.


Imo the lizardperson overlords in the rules committee have let their personal feelings about drinks get ahead of themselves and we're seeking the crack in the disguise they've had going.

Nice try, lizard people, but today was a pyrrhic victory for your kind.....

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 Post subject: Re: Ashnod's Coupon
AgePosted: 2017-Dec-04 7:20 pm 

Joined: 2008-Aug-08 6:34 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Rouen, France
Shabbaman wrote:
It's probably banned because either:
a) the RC dislikes drinks


Ha! Sheldon has a wine cellar more extensive than most Paris 5-star hotels!

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 Post subject: Re: Ashnod's Coupon
AgePosted: 2017-Dec-04 11:12 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Jan-02 5:25 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Costa La Haya, capital del ducado Holanda
zimagic wrote:
Shabbaman wrote:
It's probably banned because either:
a) the RC dislikes drinks


Ha! Sheldon has a wine cellar more extensive than most Paris 5-star hotels!


And yet in this very thread I see him claim he has mobility issues. That makes it unlikely he has a cellar... unless he also has an elevator!

So if I have an elevator to my wine cellar to accomodate my opponent's mobility issues, is it okay to play Ashnod's Coupon? What do I have to do to get to play Recurring Nightmare?

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 Post subject: Re: Ashnod's Coupon
AgePosted: 2017-Dec-04 11:31 pm 
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Joined: 2016-Nov-27 2:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Shabbaman wrote:
zimagic wrote:
Shabbaman wrote:
It's probably banned because either:
a) the RC dislikes drinks


Ha! Sheldon has a wine cellar more extensive than most Paris 5-star hotels!


And yet in this very thread I see him claim he has mobility issues. That makes it unlikely he has a cellar... unless he also has an elevator!

So if I have an elevator to my wine cellar to accomodate my opponent's mobility issues, is it okay to play Ashnod's Coupon? What do I have to do to get to play Recurring Nightmare?


Ashnod's Mobility Elevator isn't a released artifact yet though.

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Beloved precons: Atraxa, Praetors' Voice; Saskia the Unyielding; Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury.


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 Post subject: Re: Ashnod's Coupon
AgePosted: 2017-Dec-04 11:52 pm 

Joined: 2013-Jun-23 10:18 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Shabbaman wrote:
zimagic wrote:
Shabbaman wrote:
It's probably banned because either:
a) the RC dislikes drinks


Ha! Sheldon has a wine cellar more extensive than most Paris 5-star hotels!


And yet in this very thread I see him claim he has mobility issues. That makes it unlikely he has a cellar... unless he also has an elevator!

So if I have an elevator to my wine cellar to accomodate my opponent's mobility issues, is it okay to play Ashnod's Coupon? What do I have to do to get to play Recurring Nightmare?


If Sheldon has an elevator to his wine cellar, I'd strongly suspect that "wine cellar" is a euphemism. It's clearly a Secret Bas-

Wait. Is Sheldon the true head of S.N.E.A.K?

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Last edited by Swmystery on 2017-Dec-05 1:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ashnod's Coupon
AgePosted: 2017-Dec-05 1:51 am 
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Joined: 2012-Sep-19 1:30 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Swmystery wrote:
If Sheldon has an elevator to his wine cellar, I'd strongly suspect that "wine cellar" it is a euphemism. It's clearly a Secret Bas-

Wait. Is Sheldon the true head of S.N.E.A.K?

...and Swmystery was never heard from again.

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 Post subject: Re: Ashnod's Coupon
AgePosted: 2017-Dec-06 1:53 am 
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Joined: 2006-May-24 10:14 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Tampa, FL, USA
I live in Florida. Since basements aren't possible due to high water tables (well, they are, they're just called "nasty indoor underground swimming pools), my "cellar" is a ground level room. Currently, it holds three portable cellars, with about 800 bottles worth of storage. In the near future, we will turn the room into an actual climate-controlled room with racking and all the things you expect from a cellar (except that it'll still be above ground).

Oh, and I fervently deny any rumor that I am the head of any secret organizations.

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 Post subject: Re: Ashnod's Coupon
AgePosted: 2017-Dec-06 4:34 am 
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Joined: 2011-Jan-02 5:25 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Costa La Haya, capital del ducado Holanda
"Portable" does sound useful in combination with Ashnod's Coupon: "go fetch my wine cellar so I can target a drink", but it also sounds that's only feasible if you also cast Giant Growth on your opponent. But then you'd have to turn your opponent into a creature first, and that not on a card yet printed (although I did read there's another Great Designer Search coming up). Now it makes complete sense why Ashnod's Coupon is banned.

So let us go back to the topic of unbanning Recurring Nightmare...

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 Post subject: Re: Ashnod's Coupon
AgePosted: 2017-Dec-06 9:30 am 

Joined: 2012-Mar-31 11:52 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Yes, let's.


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 Post subject: Re: Ashnod's Coupon
AgePosted: 2017-Dec-07 6:11 am 
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Joined: 2012-Dec-03 3:16 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Shabbaman wrote:
"Portable" does sound useful in combination with Ashnod's Coupon: "go fetch my wine cellar so I can target a drink", but it also sounds that's only feasible if you also cast Giant Growth on your opponent. But then you'd have to turn your opponent into a creature first, and that not on a card yet printed (although I did read there's another Great Designer Search coming up). Now it makes complete sense why Ashnod's Coupon is banned.

So let us go back to the topic of unbanning Recurring Nightmare...


cryogen wrote:
Yes, let's.

I 3rd this change in topics!

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Shabbaman wrote:
The usual answer is "the social contract", but I guess that is not what you are looking for. Try house rules.


With perfect mana, reasonable removal, disruption, and card advantage, we're back to pitchforks and torches. And it's about to get worse for those who do not enjoy the game as Richard Garfield intended, playing as few win conditions as possible and prompting concession after all hopes (and spells) are lost. - Shaheen Soorani


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