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MTG Commander/Elder Dragon Highlander • View topic - Damping sphere plus dictate of karametra

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 Post subject: Damping sphere plus dictate of karametra
AgePosted: 2018-May-20 2:17 pm 

Joined: 2015-Apr-04 3:24 am
Age: Wyvern
Location: San Jose, California
Does having the sphere in play cause lands to tap for colorless?


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 Post subject: Re: Damping sphere plus dictate of karametra
AgePosted: 2018-May-20 2:48 pm 
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Joined: 2013-Oct-26 9:21 am
Age: Dragon
Location: Xenia, OH, USA
doesn't cause an issue with . It simply adds another mana.

Things like , however, do get hosed by this. It's all in the wording.

Basically, if the effect says the controller adds the mana, it is fine, but if it adds a multiple, it is hosed.


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 Post subject: Re: Damping sphere plus dictate of karametra
AgePosted: 2018-May-20 2:49 pm 

Joined: 2015-Apr-04 3:24 am
Age: Wyvern
Location: San Jose, California
But Reflection has to be worded as such because it applies to permanents not just lands, so I'm still confused.


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 Post subject: Re: Damping sphere plus dictate of karametra
AgePosted: 2018-May-20 2:55 pm 
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Joined: 2013-Oct-26 9:21 am
Age: Dragon
Location: Xenia, OH, USA
Ok.. let me rephrase that, lands are hosed with Mana Reflection and Damping Sphere.

Other permanents are not.

Any land that natively taps for more than one mana are hosed. (Tron lands, Gaea's Cradle, Cabal Coffers, Temple of the False God, Nykthos, etc)

If you put out Mana Flare instead of Mana Reflection, normal lands will still produce the one and then the Mana Flare triggers, giving additional mana.


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 Post subject: Re: Damping sphere plus dictate of karametra
AgePosted: 2018-May-20 3:11 pm 

Joined: 2015-Apr-04 3:24 am
Age: Wyvern
Location: San Jose, California
Ok so that makes more sense but the thing I'm still unclear about is: why would it matter that its caused by a triggered ability. Isn't Sphere a replacement effect? Or should I infer that because mana is being added by a triggered ability, that somehow gets around the replacement effect of Sphere?


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 Post subject: Re: Damping sphere plus dictate of karametra
AgePosted: 2018-May-20 3:13 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Jul-18 9:59 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Dictate of Karametra produces the extra mana

Mana Reflection causes the mana producer to produce the extra mana

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 Post subject: Re: Damping sphere plus dictate of karametra
AgePosted: 2018-May-20 4:18 pm 
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Joined: 2017-Mar-11 6:43 am
Age: Dragon
A few more for consideration... These sort of powerful hate-cards need to be well understood.

is immune to 's triggered ability. It's trigger generates the mana as a mana ability- but the mana isn't tethered to the land OR the Caged Sun itself. Caged Sun therefore only has to be around when the lands are tapped for mana- to see and generate the triggers. Sometimes a table will think CS, or can be outpaced by or because they use a triggered mana ability- and it also insulates them from in the way and are. and are also insulated.

In terms of templating- this is very specific to stop mass production of individual sources- as opposed to actually getting doublers. is afaik uniquely effected by this. The design intent is likely a nod to - but in EDH, it gets bonus points for restricting Nykthos, , Storage Lands, and other standard affair for bonus acceleration- it also quirky enough hits some things that aren't as powerful like Filters, Oddysey-Filters, Karoos etc. The most important reason to know this, is that you could accidentally use the Sphere to pressure down someone with a vulnerable start (like a Karoo start)- effectively performing early mana denial. Doing this carelessly will often the lead to you getting an unnecessary level of aggression from the table (IE, bad politics.) It belongs in a class of hate-cards that can make decisive counters- but functions best outside of a Stax deck, and not using it appropriately can lead to bad table manners, or group tension in a similar manner to , , or (preemptively hosing a general like Roon, Feldon, Azami etc.)


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 Post subject: Double vs double :p
AgePosted: 2018-May-20 8:14 pm 

Joined: 2017-Jun-13 4:56 am
Age: Drake
"Mana Doublers" is a misnomer, like "infinite" is (outside of silver border). Most effects don't actually double mana, they add an additional mana. Damping sphere is really lazer focused on beating high-tide effects and individual powerful lands with one effect, then stopping rapid combo and storm with the other. It might be the most perfectly templated hate-rock in the game.

It beats Bounce lands but leaves the drawback. It turns off filter lands. , , and still have their drawbacks but tap like .

I imagine only stacks/"stop playing" decks like the tax-storm effect enough to run the card, otherwise I'd expect this card to see a lot of play. Funnily enough you can still go into into , but then your would cost 7 thus ruining a perfect hand forever.

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 Post subject: Re: Double vs double :p
AgePosted: 2018-May-21 1:04 am 
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Joined: 2017-Mar-11 6:43 am
Age: Dragon


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