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 Post subject: Cards that could be banned? Discussion
AgePosted: 2019-Jan-27 7:43 pm 

Joined: 2019-Jan-27 5:38 pm
Age: Wyvern
Hi there, this is my first post here, so I appologyze if this is the wrong place to post, or if this topic have been talked already.

I have been thinking recently about cards that should be banned, not for the sake of banning the card, or to make a deck weaker, but because I think they are way too powerful for a healty environment.

I and my playgroup were talking the other day and we think some cards are way too good for either their cost, or their ability. I'm going to ralk about all of them, maybe the RC read it and consider it.

Things my group and I agree:

Mana Crypt: 3 accesible mana in turn 1 is ridiculous. This puts all the other players way too behind, and the 3 damage punishment isn't enough.

Tooth and Nail: One card win condition is way too broken. I haven never seen a game in which a Tooth and Nail resolves and the player doesn't win instantly. And this one is not one that only my playgroup thinks. I've talked to lots of peopls over the internet who think this one should had been banned for so long already...

Protean Hulk: Even though I run a deck that wins turn 1 or 2 with this, I'd be happy to see it banned again. It's absolutely not fun to play against. Besides this, with the new Vannifar, all the builds i've seen online only want to rush to get protean hulk... It's really not fun. People say to ban Flash, but flash by itself is useless in insta-win matters...


Things I think they should be banned, but my group doesn't (most of the cases because they run the cards in their decks or have a commander of them):

Oloro: This one is not like a must, but the fact that they gain 2 life each turn takes them out of range really easily. It's nkt impossible to deal with, but considering it has the 3 more control-friendly colors it's not easy... It literally needs nothing in order to be giving an active benefit to the owner...

Najeela: This is a controversial one. For me, I think it's too broken. If you miss removal you probably die. With 7 or 8 cards she can make infinite combats, you'll get overwhelmed really early on by lots of warrior tokens... When I play against a najeela, she'll be usually hitting the board turn 2 or 3, and with at least a warrior in play by then, and I usually lose either to infinite combats one or two turns after she hits the board, or about 4 turns after she hits the board with no combo... I can't remember a game against a najeela deck in which they lose, and a game against a najeela deck which last avove the 8 turns...

Cyclonic Rift: Instant Speed. Only you get your board intact while all your opponents have to rebuild. I play this card a lot, in fact I play it in 99% of my decks that have blue, but I think it's way too good. Whenever a player overloads it, the chances of they winning the game increases by over 200%. If it was sorcery, or it it returned the caster's stuff to hand too... but it's way too broken...

Palinchron: Infinite mana way too easily. You know the deal, it's nothing new.

Metal Worker: Have you ever had a Kozilek cast in turn 3? because this is how you get a kozilek in turn 3. Besides that, it's insane the ammount of mana it can generate. My friends don't agree with this because they say it's hard to see, but every time we see one, the player who plays it wins, so....

Food Chain: 3 guys from my play group play this. They don't want them banned. All the rest of us do. If it hits the board it's GG. Prosh, Maelsteom Wanderer, and Marath. 100% win ratio once it resolves. And not only in my playgroup. When I play online, if food chain hits the grounds it's GG.


Things that I personally consider ban worthy but are also things I don't have in my Playgroup:

Expropriate: I've played I guess once or twice against a deck that runs expropriate, and after it's cast the game is done and they win. It's not the extra turn, but also the fact that they just steal out best card and win with them. I think rhe card is WAY too powerful.

Mishra's Workshop: Ridiculous. I only see it playing online and I quit hahahah Thankfully its price is so high i'll never see one in real life.

Gaea's Cradle: Even if by itself it adds 0 mana, the only times i've seen that card i have not seen it tap for less than 10 mana... At least rites of itlitmoc needs a set up and a whole turn to transform...


Now, for the cards that I think should be unbanned:

Black Braids: To be honest I don't see why she's banned. If she only affected opponents, but the controller is affected too...

Limited Resources: Don't get me wrong: I hate playing against MLD... That said, i have a MLD deck in the build ahhajaj The card can be really annoying, but it doesn't shut players down completely, and it doesn't prevent lands entering the field by effects such as cultivate. Also, mana rocks stay :D I wouldn't mind it unbanned, but at the same time I wouldn't mind if they don't unban it...

Erayo: I just want her in my Mishra deck hahaha and even then, casting 4 spells in a turn rarely happens early in the game... Besides, for the effect there is already a gayrgole that does the same, it costs 9, but still...

Sway of the stars: Let's be real. Nobody will play this. Maybe just old jhoira, and she already play some other ridiculous combos there that i don't see why not unbanning it... I'd like to play it in a chaos deck just because, but still not really worth the ban in my opinion

Balance: You already made the magus of the balance so....



And finally, cards people ask to be banned but I don't think it's worth it

Sol Ring: I understand why people want it banned, but it's so accessible to everybody that I don't see a reason to ban it. It's not as mana cryp which not only just people with lots of money can have but also enters free. Sol Ring is a good card in early, but in mid and late game barely affects the game. And, as it's really cheap ($) i don't see why anyone could run one in the deck. I personally run a sol ring in let's say 90% of my decks, especially in decks with no green so they can have a way to ramp early.

Extra turn cards: Even though it's bored to play against, they are normally high costed, so by then everybody should have something. Besides, most of them exile themselves.

Purphoros: It's a really hard to deal deck if it's the commander, or a real pain in the ass in decks like prosh, but it's not ban worth for me.

Iona: In multiplayer games it's really hard to see a Iona that lasts an entire round... Besides it's really high costed.



And that'd be it. What do you think about it? Do you agree or disagree?



P.S. Don't unban panoptic mirror, wtf? extra turn each turn for free? no thanksssssss
P.S.2: Painter Servant Enables way too many combos other than just Iona... come on: grinds stone and sphynx's tutelage are the first that came to mind.


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 Post subject: Re: Cards that could be banned? Discussion
AgePosted: 2019-Jan-28 3:40 am 

Joined: 2012-Mar-31 11:52 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Hi, and welcome to the forums! You are correct that a number of these cards have been discussed before, but don't let that stop you from bringing them up as well, especially since you put thought into it rather than just "I think they should ban X". Anywho, I'll just throw in my two cents right down the line:

Mana Crypt: First off, you are discounting the ubiquitous nature of Sol Ring (which you discuss later but I'll lump it all here). The reason that everyone and their brother owns a SR and MC is a $150 card is precisely why SR is worse for the format, if we are running under the assumption that being able to jump two turns ahead of your opponent nearly instantly is a bad thing. I personally think that the swings it creates in the early game are disruptive enough to warrant consideration for banning. Further, if we look at the format through the eyes of the RC, where games are expected to go 5-10 turns, losing 1.5 life a turn is a very real setback. Yes, three mana turn one when you are going to end the game by turn five makes Crypt much better, but those games aren't what the RC is trying to manage. But the games where your turn one Sol Ring put you in a dominant position by turn four or five and your opponents are only able to tap out for a board wipe are games the RC should not want to see 9r encourage.

Tooth and Nail: constantly talked about. If there were a Watch List, this would be on it. There are some legitimate uses for this, so while I'm on the fence, it's definitely not a card I would miss, and every set puts more fatties into our hands that we can tutor for.

Protean Hulk: similar to T&N, this is mainly just a combo piece that you can pull your punches on and use fairly, only it's easier to tutor for in green. I run this in Karador alongside the rest of the Karmi/llark combo, but unless I'm playing a tournament I often just grab value with it.

Oloro: meh. Oloro himself isn't a problem, the problem is that people build pillowfort, control, and stax decks around him. Zur says hi.

Najeela: likewise with Oloro, ultimately the players are the problem if they want to build linear combo decks.

Cyclonic Rift: another oft-discussed card. It is very efficient at what it does but people too often focus on its ability to reset the game for opponents but overlook the card as a whole.

Palinchron: you either combo with this card or you probably don't run it. You can't ban every card that meets that description.

Metalworker: I've seen this a bunch and don't actually take issue with it. Playing with a friend who has a hyper-tuned Kozilek deck, Metalworker is just a win more card, and he is still quite deadly without the assistance of Metalworker.


Food Chain: again, if you want to run a dedicated combo deck, the RC isn't going to stop you.

Expropriate: there is actually an active thread discussing this card. Personally, it's a nine mana card so it should probably win the game anyway, but if your opponents dont vote money they better have a damn good reason. (Side note, just this weekend we drafted my cube and someone cast this. The player to my right rightly voted time because he had just cast Kozilek. I also voted time, which was questionable, because the 9ne thing I had of value was my general and it was my only chance at winning).

Workshop: only playable in a mostly dedicated artifact deck, so even if it were.more reasonably priced you wouldn't see a huge uptick in it being played.

Gaea's Cradle: it takes longer to really get this online, and can quickly be neutralized by a board wipe. It is also harder to chain mana like with Academy since summoning sickness is a thing.

Braids: I concur that braids could come off the list. There are better mono black generals and if you build a stax deck the social contract should regulate her.

Limited Resources: just no. In a fair vacuum each player gets 2.5 lands, and in reality it doesn't work that way. Balance is the same way where the "fair" nature of the card hardly ever plays out that way.

Erayo: miserable general but fair card in the 99. RIP BaaC list.

Sway: this card adds little to nothing to the format. Could it be unbanned without causing problems? Maybe? I dont know, I've never tested it out nor had any desire to use it. But my suspicion is that the number of people who would enjoy losing to it are low.


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 Post subject: Re: Cards that could be banned? Discussion
AgePosted: 2019-Jan-30 2:56 am 

Joined: 2019-Jan-30 2:43 am
Age: Hatchling
Flash, Ad Nauseam, and Mana Crypt would be my picks. In my own group, whenever one of those resolves, it's usually game over. The only exception is if multiple people resolve Mana Crypt, but it usually doesn't get that far.

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 Post subject: Re: Cards that could be banned? Discussion
AgePosted: 2019-Jan-30 10:32 am 

Joined: 2019-Jan-27 5:38 pm
Age: Wyvern
Penthoplayer wrote:
Flash, Ad Nauseam, and Mana Crypt would be my picks. In my own group, whenever one of those resolves, it's usually game over. The only exception is if multiple people resolve Mana Crypt, but it usually doesn't get that far.


Flash doesn't win, it's the hulk which does... tbh I can't think of any card that can be used with it to combo that is not protean hulk

also, well yes, mana crypt is way too good...

and why ad nauseam? I play it in a deck and it's not that broken i guess...at least not in my deck ahahha


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 Post subject: Re: Cards that could be banned? Discussion
AgePosted: 2019-Jan-30 11:34 am 

Joined: 2019-Jan-30 2:43 am
Age: Hatchling
Chiky wrote:
Penthoplayer wrote:
Flash, Ad Nauseam, and Mana Crypt would be my picks. In my own group, whenever one of those resolves, it's usually game over. The only exception is if multiple people resolve Mana Crypt, but it usually doesn't get that far.


Flash doesn't win, it's the hulk which does... tbh I can't think of any card that can be used with it to combo that is not protean hulk

also, well yes, mana crypt is way too good...

and why ad nauseam? I play it in a deck and it's not that broken i guess...at least not in my deck ahahha

Flash also works with Academy Rector to get Omniscience, while Hulk by itself really isn't broken.

For Ad Nauseam, I run it myself in a deck with an average cmc < 2, and with 40 life and mana-positive rocks, it will win the game quickly.

Mana Crypt actually feels stronger than some of the original Moxen...

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 Post subject: Re: Cards that could be banned? Discussion
AgePosted: 2019-Jan-30 11:37 am 

Joined: 2019-Jan-27 5:38 pm
Age: Wyvern
Penthoplayer wrote:
Chiky wrote:
Penthoplayer wrote:
Flash, Ad Nauseam, and Mana Crypt would be my picks. In my own group, whenever one of those resolves, it's usually game over. The only exception is if multiple people resolve Mana Crypt, but it usually doesn't get that far.


Flash doesn't win, it's the hulk which does... tbh I can't think of any card that can be used with it to combo that is not protean hulk

also, well yes, mana crypt is way too good...

and why ad nauseam? I play it in a deck and it's not that broken i guess...at least not in my deck ahahha

Flash also works with Academy Rector to get Omniscience, while Hulk by itself really isn't broken.

For Ad Nauseam, I run it myself in a deck with an average cmc < 2, and with 40 life and mana-positive rocks, it will win the game quickly.

Mana Crypt actually feels stronger than some of the original Moxen...


My deck with ad nauseam's CMC is like 5 hahaha

and yeah, academy rector. fun thing i play both in my turn 0 edh hahahah


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 Post subject: Re: Cards that could be banned? Discussion
AgePosted: 2019-Jan-30 11:50 am 

Joined: 2019-Jan-30 2:43 am
Age: Hatchling
Chiky wrote:

Flash doesn't win, it's the hulk which does... tbh I can't think of any card that can be used with it to combo that is not protean hulk

also, well yes, mana crypt is way too good...

and why ad nauseam? I play it in a deck and it's not that broken i guess...at least not in my deck ahahha

Flash also works with Academy Rector to get Omniscience, while Hulk by itself really isn't broken.

For Ad Nauseam, I run it myself in a deck with an average cmc < 2, and with 40 life and mana-positive rocks, it will win the game quickly.

Mana Crypt actually feels stronger than some of the original Moxen...[/quote]

My deck with ad nauseam's CMC is like 5 hahaha

and yeah, academy rector. fun thing i play both in my turn 0 edh hahahah[/quote]
I added my deck to my signature. It should give some insight for Ad Nauseam. Unfortunately, I don't have a list for Flash.

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